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uk.tech.digital-tv (Digital TV - General) (uk.tech.digital-tv) Discussion of all matters technical in origin related to the reception of digital television transmissions, be they via satellite, terrestrial or cable. Advertising is forbidden, with no exceptions.

BBC no change



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 10th 03, 10:22 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
David Quinton
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Posts: 11
Default BBC no change

On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 06:41:15 +0100, "David"
wrote:
11:22 BBC1 has appeared in the clear on my Echostar Digital Sat.
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  #2  
Old July 10th 03, 10:37 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
David Quinton
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Posts: 11
Default BBC no change

On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 11:28:29 +0100, "David"
wrote:
Also Fta digi reciever also clear. (but w/s switching not ok, will check
settings.)


My WS was OK but picture seems a tad "grainy" when compared with
terrestrial, but it's a bit difficult to tell.
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Vispa Internet - a real star performer!
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  #3  
Old July 10th 03, 10:54 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Mark Carver
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Posts: 710
Default BBC no change

D Mumford wrote:
Working in hereford without a card.
Where can i find out what all the two letters after the bbc stand
for, i know its a transmitter , also how many are there?


See the bottom of this page:-
http://www.vowles-home.demon.co.uk/Sat/bbcregions.htm
  #4  
Old July 10th 03, 11:33 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Mark Carver
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Posts: 710
Default BBC no change

Simon Gardner [dot]co[dot]uk wrote:
In article ,
"David" wrote:

Also Fta digi reciever also clear. (but w/s switching not ok, will
check settings.)


The BBC dosn't use proper line 23 w/s switching as used on satellite
TV elsewhere but relies on pin 8 switching only. It's less likely
your real digital receiver will know what to do with a pin 8 signal


The BBC England Regions tests had line 23 idents on them last time I looked.

BTW Simon, your PC clock is an hour fast :-)
  #5  
Old July 10th 03, 12:46 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
D Mumford
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Posts: 81
Default BBC no change

Thanks for the link, mark


  #6  
Old July 10th 03, 01:20 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
HJK
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Posts: 20
Default BBC no change


"Simon Gardner" [dot]co[dot]uk wrote in message
...
In article ,
"David" wrote:

Also Fta digi reciever also clear. (but w/s switching not ok, will check
settings.)


The BBC dosn't use proper line 23 w/s switching as used on satellite TV
elsewhere but relies on pin 8 switching only. It's less likely your real
digital receiver will know what to do with a pin 8 signal


BBC use proper W/S signalling.

Line 23 is NOT the proper W/S signalling in MPEG-2 as it is W/S signalling
used in analog
PAL transmissions (PAL+). MPEG-2 signals W/S format in the video sequence
header and
digital set top box use Pin 8 on the scart. This is by far the most common
way of trigging
W/S switching via digital satellite transmission.

Some receivers might be able to read the sequence header and on basis of
this create
analog WSS signalling in line 23 in a RF or CVBS output. The BBC could
also transmitt active format
description which the receiver converts to line 23 active format description
but then again
it must be supported by the set top box.

I have however seen line 23 W/S on some of the regional services but it
could more or less by
coincidence that the first part of line 23 is carried trough the MPEG-2
video encoder as the videoframe
starts in the second half of line 23.


  #7  
Old July 10th 03, 01:33 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Mark Carver
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Posts: 710
Default BBC no change

HJK wrote:

BBC use proper W/S signalling.

Line 23 is NOT the proper W/S signalling in MPEG-2 as it is W/S
signalling used in analog
PAL transmissions (PAL+). MPEG-2 signals W/S format in the video
sequence header and
digital set top box use Pin 8 on the scart. This is by far the most
common way of trigging
W/S switching via digital satellite transmission.

Some receivers might be able to read the sequence header and on
basis of this create
analog WSS signalling in line 23 in a RF or CVBS output. The BBC
could also transmitt active format
description which the receiver converts to line 23 active format
description but then again
it must be supported by the set top box.

I have however seen line 23 W/S on some of the regional services but
it could more or less by
coincidence that the first part of line 23 is carried trough the
MPEG-2 video encoder as the videoframe
starts in the second half of line 23.


I suspect the BBC are inserting the Line 23 WSS signal at each regional
studio. This is probably derived from the DTT AFD data. AIUI the local DTT
output in each English region is being backhauled to London for D-Sat uplink.
The Beeb in London probably take the L23 WSS data, decode it, and feed that into
D-Sat coders for uplink. But they should blank this before it hits the D-Sat video coders.
(this does not seem to be happening)

See:-
http://www.microvideo.co.uk/home1.htm

Probably some of their boxes in use at each end :-)



  #8  
Old July 10th 03, 01:56 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
David Quinton
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Posts: 11
Default BBC no change

On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 11:37:58 +0100, David Quinton
wrote:

My WS was OK but picture seems a tad "grainy" when compared with
terrestrial, but it's a bit difficult to tell.


I thought to begin with that the RGB was awry.
But it was David Dickinson - so skin tones are different to normal!
--
Vispa Internet - a real star performer!
http://www.vispaconnect.co.uk/index.php?referer=bizorg
  #9  
Old July 10th 03, 02:16 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
David Quinton
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Posts: 11
Default BBC no change

On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 15:09:19 +0100, Dave Fawthrop
wrote:

I would like to get Look North


Masochist!
--
Vispa Internet - a real star performer!
http://www.vispaconnect.co.uk/index.php?referer=bizorg
  #10  
Old July 10th 03, 02:22 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Aztech
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Posts: 655
Default BBC no change

"Simon Gardner" [dot]co[dot]uk wrote in message
...
In article ,
"HJK" wrote:

Line 23 is NOT the proper W/S signalling in MPEG-2 as it is W/S signalling
used in analog


I can assure you that line 23 is used extensively (as it should be) in
continental widescreen transmissions. Pin 8 is inferior in any case.


That doesn't mean its right, it's there because many are still using 4:3
play-out instead of proper anamorphic systems, it's a legacy PAL+ thing that is
simply passing through the MPEG encoders (unless your box is inserting it).

Every broadcaster sends out either a 4:3 or 16:9 flag in the GOP headers, this
is the "proper" way of doing things on DVB, this is what triggers the Pin 8
value (or possibly generate 23 in some boxes). I don't see why you think it's
"inferior" unless you still have a predilection for linking everything up via
RF, or have old VCR's, or you like watching broadcasters who cannot engineer
things "properly".

As for AFD's, they're not sent out on DSat.

Az.

 




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