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uk.tech.digital-tv (Digital TV - General) (uk.tech.digital-tv) Discussion of all matters technical in origin related to the reception of digital television transmissions, be they via satellite, terrestrial or cable. Advertising is forbidden, with no exceptions.

Crystal Palace Issues



 
 
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  #1  
Old March 30th 18, 01:36 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
John[_21_]
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Posts: 74
Default Crystal Palace Issues

I dutifully retuned, and was shocked to find a load of channels missing! Especially annoying was the loss of BBC News HD and BBC Four HD.

As explained elsewhere, two multiplexes have migrated from their Group A homes to UHF 55 and 56. Given that London has had its channels in Group A for years and years, there must be a very good reason for shoving them outside of Group A: money and technical issues.

I live in a Central London tower block and have my own Group A aerial pointing at Crystal Palace/Croydon at rooftop level and a 70m cable run down to my living room.

I complained to the Digital TV folk. To my surprise, they are sending sub-contractors to have a look to see what can be done.

The obvious thing would be to remove the existing Group A aerial and replace it with a Group W one. However, I worry about its lesser sensitivity at the Group A end. The rooftop is so high (effectively the 22nd floor) that I fear interference from Bluebell Hill and Hannington. Is this something that I ought to fear in the era of DTT? Or could it mean being able to see local news from different areas?

Is an alternative getting a Group C/D aerial and combining it with the existing Group A? Advantages/disadvantages?

It seems as though the beneficiaries of the changes are the ones who have to pay to sort out reception problems like mine. I am surprised that I have heard no complaints from London friends about the loss of channels. Maybe they have not noticed yet or they have Sky or cable or never had a Group A aerial to begin with? I wonder why it was not technically possible to leave those muxes where they were?

I see from my Humax PVR that it sees no signal whatsoever from 55 or 56 from the existing Group A. I am not surprised.

I post this to get advice and receive comments, but also to tell you that if you have been affected by these changes in your area, then so long as you do not have Sky or cable or some other means of getting the full panoply of channels, then it appears that the beneficiaries of these changes have to pay to put people back in the position that they were in to begin with before the changes.

John


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  #2  
Old March 30th 18, 02:22 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Andy Burns[_12_]
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Posts: 573
Default Crystal Palace Issues

John wrote:

London has had its channels in Group A for years and years, there
must be a very good reason for shoving them outside of Group A

Most of the rest of the country has suffered this several times in the
last few years. London was spared until now due to the number of people
served by Crystal Palace, but now it's time for the pips to squeak ...

The obvious thing would be to remove the existing Group A aerial and
replace it with a Group W one. However, I worry about its lesser
sensitivity at the Group A end.


Unless you were marginal for analogue, I'd expect digital has plenty of
headroom on the low end.

I wonder why it was not technically possible to leave those muxes where they were?


The Mobile networks' insatiable demand for bandwidth.
  #3  
Old March 30th 18, 06:16 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Bill Wright[_3_]
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Posts: 2,448
Default Crystal Palace Issues

On 30/03/2018 14:36, John wrote:
I dutifully retuned, and was shocked to find a load of channels missing! Especially annoying was the loss of BBC News HD and BBC Four HD.



I live in a Central London tower block and have my own Group A aerial pointing at Crystal Palace/Croydon at rooftop level and a 70m cable run down to my living room.


The obvious thing would be to remove the existing Group A aerial and replace it with a Group W one. However, I worry about its lesser sensitivity at the Group A end.


If you are in central London you will be swamped with CP signal, even
allowing for beam tilt (tx looks downwards a bit).

The rooftop is so high (effectively the 22nd floor) that I fear
interference from Bluebell Hill and Hannington. Is this something that
I ought to fear in the era of DTT? Or could it mean being able to see
local news from different areas?

No they don't use the same channels except for the new 55/56 allocation,
and you can't do anything about that.


Is an alternative getting a Group C/D aerial and combining it with the existing Group A? Advantages/disadvantages?


Just don't.


I see from my Humax PVR that it sees no signal whatsoever from 55 or 56 from the existing Group A. I am not surprised.


Your 70m cable will lose more on the higher channels, especially if it
has rubbed anywhere and got a bit of damp in it. That could easily
explain the problem.

The CP signal will be so strong that the aerial could well be faulty and
still provide enough signal to seem OK. But that would show up on 55/56.

Are you sure there isn't a Gp A filter anywhere, fitted to stop 4G problems?

Bill
  #5  
Old March 30th 18, 09:26 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Dave W
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Posts: 287
Default Crystal Palace Issues

On 30/03/2018 14:36, John wrote:
I dutifully retuned, and was shocked to find a load of channels missing! Especially annoying was the loss of BBC News HD and BBC Four HD.

As explained elsewhere, two multiplexes have migrated from their Group A homes to UHF 55 and 56. Given that London has had its channels in Group A for years and years, there must be a very good reason for shoving them outside of Group A: money and technical issues.

I live in a Central London tower block and have my own Group A aerial pointing at Crystal Palace/Croydon at rooftop level and a 70m cable run down to my living room.

I complained to the Digital TV folk. To my surprise, they are sending sub-contractors to have a look to see what can be done.

The obvious thing would be to remove the existing Group A aerial and replace it with a Group W one. However, I worry about its lesser sensitivity at the Group A end. The rooftop is so high (effectively the 22nd floor) that I fear interference from Bluebell Hill and Hannington. Is this something that I ought to fear in the era of DTT? Or could it mean being able to see local news from different areas?

Is an alternative getting a Group C/D aerial and combining it with the existing Group A? Advantages/disadvantages?

It seems as though the beneficiaries of the changes are the ones who have to pay to sort out reception problems like mine. I am surprised that I have heard no complaints from London friends about the loss of channels. Maybe they have not noticed yet or they have Sky or cable or never had a Group A aerial to begin with? I wonder why it was not technically possible to leave those muxes where they were?

I see from my Humax PVR that it sees no signal whatsoever from 55 or 56 from the existing Group A. I am not surprised.

I post this to get advice and receive comments, but also to tell you that if you have been affected by these changes in your area, then so long as you do not have Sky or cable or some other means of getting the full panoply of channels, then it appears that the beneficiaries of these changes have to pay to put people back in the position that they were in to begin with before the changes.

John


I too have lost channels owing to the abandonment of the sensible
grouped channel system. I don't know why they couldn't have put the new
phone allocation at the top of the UHF band instead of the middle, but
maybe the high channels are useful for fill-in transmitters.

I thought my aerial in the loft was wideband as I got it from a DIY
emporium, but looking at it now it seems rubbish as the director
elements are all the same length and equally spaced. Channels 55 & 56
showed no reception.

I ordered a wideband aerial via ebay but they sent me a group 'A' by
mistake. They will replace it but in the meantime I've put a small
log-periodic set-top aerial up there, and although reception on channels
55 & 56 is lower strength than the low channels, "quality" is shown as
"very good". My roof is slate and wet with rain at the moment.
--
Dave W
  #6  
Old March 30th 18, 10:13 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Andy Burns[_12_]
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Posts: 573
Default Crystal Palace Issues

Dave W wrote:

I don't know why they couldn't have put the new
phone allocation at the top of the UHF band instead of the middle


Channels 61 to 69 a the top end have already been given over to 4G, now
they're coming back for a second bite for 5G from 49 to 60, TV has to be
squeezed in 21 to 48.
  #7  
Old March 30th 18, 11:33 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Dave W
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 287
Default Crystal Palace Issues

On 30/03/2018 23:13, Andy Burns wrote:
Dave W wrote:

I don't know why they couldn't have put the new
phone allocation at the top of the UHF band instead of the middle


Channels 61 to 69 a the top end have already been given over to 4G, now
they're coming back for a second bite for 5G from 49 to 60, TV has to be
squeezed in 21 to 48.


Does that mean that channels 55 & 56 are only temporary, and when we
have to tune lower down maybe a group 'A' aerial will work again?
--
Dave W
  #8  
Old March 31st 18, 12:11 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Bill Wright[_3_]
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Posts: 2,448
Default Crystal Palace Issues

On 31/03/2018 00:33, Dave W wrote:
On 30/03/2018 23:13, Andy Burns wrote:
Dave W wrote:

I don't know why they couldn't have put the new
phone allocation at the top of the UHF band instead of the middle


Channels 61 to 69 a the top end have already been given over to 4G,
now they're coming back for a second bite for 5G from 49 to 60, TV has
to be squeezed in 21 to 48.


Does that mean that channels 55 & 56 are only temporary, and when we
have to tune lower down maybe a group 'A' aerial will work again?


They are temporary until after the next but one election, at which point
terrestrial broadcasting will be reduced to one mux carrying the five
basic channels on a national SFN.
Objectors will be hushed and told that since 'everyone' has fast
internet and/or satellite they should use that. Their comments will not
be reported by the mainstream media. Since from 2020 onwards all
internet messages will be scrutinised for hate speech by a robot sensor
the only available medium will be the walls of public lavatories, the
graffitists wearing a balaclava and Corbyn mask. Dissent about the
effective end of terrestrial broadcasting will be classed as hate speech
(Public Order Act 2022) and anyone speaking out of place will be locked up.

Bill
  #9  
Old March 31st 18, 06:32 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Scott[_2_]
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Posts: 1,344
Default Crystal Palace Issues

On Fri, 30 Mar 2018 22:26:04 +0100, Dave W
wrote:

On 30/03/2018 14:36, John wrote:
I dutifully retuned, and was shocked to find a load of channels missing! Especially annoying was the loss of BBC News HD and BBC Four HD.

As explained elsewhere, two multiplexes have migrated from their Group A homes to UHF 55 and 56. Given that London has had its channels in Group A for years and years, there must be a very good reason for shoving them outside of Group A: money and technical issues.

I live in a Central London tower block and have my own Group A aerial pointing at Crystal Palace/Croydon at rooftop level and a 70m cable run down to my living room.

I complained to the Digital TV folk. To my surprise, they are sending sub-contractors to have a look to see what can be done.

The obvious thing would be to remove the existing Group A aerial and replace it with a Group W one. However, I worry about its lesser sensitivity at the Group A end. The rooftop is so high (effectively the 22nd floor) that I fear interference from Bluebell Hill and Hannington. Is this something that I ought to fear in the era of DTT? Or could it mean being able to see local news from different areas?

Is an alternative getting a Group C/D aerial and combining it with the existing Group A? Advantages/disadvantages?

It seems as though the beneficiaries of the changes are the ones who have to pay to sort out reception problems like mine. I am surprised that I have heard no complaints from London friends about the loss of channels. Maybe they have not noticed yet or they have Sky or cable or never had a Group A aerial to begin with? I wonder why it was not technically possible to leave those muxes where they were?

I see from my Humax PVR that it sees no signal whatsoever from 55 or 56 from the existing Group A. I am not surprised.

I post this to get advice and receive comments, but also to tell you that if you have been affected by these changes in your area, then so long as you do not have Sky or cable or some other means of getting the full panoply of channels, then it appears that the beneficiaries of these changes have to pay to put people back in the position that they were in to begin with before the changes.

John


I too have lost channels owing to the abandonment of the sensible
grouped channel system. I don't know why they couldn't have put the new
phone allocation at the top of the UHF band instead of the middle, but
maybe the high channels are useful for fill-in transmitters.

My understanding is that they did exactly this by reallocating the top
part of the TV band for telephony. My understanding is that channels
55 and 56 are in the centre of the new 5G band where there is a gap to
keep the transmitted and received mobile signals apart; and that slice
is temporarily used for broadcasting.

Mark can keep us right if necessary.
  #10  
Old March 31st 18, 06:58 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Jeff Layman[_2_]
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Posts: 723
Default Crystal Palace Issues

On 31/03/18 01:11, Bill Wright wrote:
On 31/03/2018 00:33, Dave W wrote:
On 30/03/2018 23:13, Andy Burns wrote:
Dave W wrote:

I don't know why they couldn't have put the new
phone allocation at the top of the UHF band instead of the middle

Channels 61 to 69 a the top end have already been given over to 4G,
now they're coming back for a second bite for 5G from 49 to 60, TV has
to be squeezed in 21 to 48.


Does that mean that channels 55 & 56 are only temporary, and when we
have to tune lower down maybe a group 'A' aerial will work again?


They are temporary until after the next but one election, at which point
terrestrial broadcasting will be reduced to one mux carrying the five
basic channels on a national SFN.
Objectors will be hushed and told that since 'everyone' has fast
internet and/or satellite they should use that.


No, you're being too positive! Freesat will be shut down too, so the
only option will be the internet or the new Sky-Net box. Both will be
monitored, as the Sky box will report back via its internet link (it
won't work without an internet link) as to exactly what you have
watched/recorded.

I'm posting this now as I won't have time tomorrow morning...

--

Jeff
 




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