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Blackhill return confusion



 
 
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  #11  
Old March 21st 18, 10:50 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Max Demian
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Posts: 3,970
Default Blackhill return confusion

On 21/03/2018 10:48, Scott wrote:
On Wed, 21 Mar 2018 10:27:35 +0000, Mark Carver
wrote:
SHOULD READ 'RETUNE'

On 21/03/2018 10:04, Scott wrote:
I would ask a similar question to Max about Blackhill.

At the moment COM7 and COM8 are on channels 32 and 35. Will these be
moving up to the mid fifties, and if so why if they are clearing the
top part of the band?


Yes, Black Hill COM 7 and 8 will move to 55/56 in September this year.


Why can they stay where they are? Presumably because it's a SFN, I
suppose?

Although everything above Ch49 is going, there's a guard band at 55/56
that is still allowed for broadcasting until 2022.


Does this mean the likes of BBC Four and BBC News HD will be lost in
2022 or will there be a plan to assimilate them into the main
multiplex? Or indeed will there be a move from DTB-T1 to DVB-T2?

Will the frequencies be the same as Crystal Palace to create a single
frequency network (with other transmitters involved also of course!)?


Yes

What are my prospects of getting these channels with a Group B aerial
and genererally excellent reception conditions?


You might just get away with Group B, (which ends at Ch53) Black Hill
is in an identical position to Sutton Coldfield, where COM 7/8 moved
two weeks ago.


If not, will there be a new wideband aerial optimised for the TV
channels that remain?


That's supposed to be group T I believe, with a built in notch to cut
out 4G.

--
Max Demian
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  #12  
Old March 21st 18, 11:01 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Mark Carver[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 439
Default Blackhill return confusion

On 21/03/2018 11:53, Bob Latham wrote:

The map at the bottom of


https://www.a516digital.com/2018/03/...7th-march.html
shows which quarter of which year the various regions are going through
their 700 MHz clearance, and *maybe* the COM7/8 move is taking place at
the same time.


Nice idea and you may be right but the quality of the text in that image
is awful. I've save the image out, blown it up and I still can't read the
names and dates. Perhaps it's me.


Try the map as seen here

http://tx.mb21.co.uk/gallery/gallery...45&pageid=3337


--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.
  #13  
Old March 21st 18, 11:19 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Scott[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,344
Default Blackhill return confusion

On Wed, 21 Mar 2018 11:50:40 +0000, Max Demian
wrote:

On 21/03/2018 10:48, Scott wrote:
On Wed, 21 Mar 2018 10:27:35 +0000, Mark Carver
wrote:
SHOULD READ 'RETUNE'

On 21/03/2018 10:04, Scott wrote:
I would ask a similar question to Max about Blackhill.

At the moment COM7 and COM8 are on channels 32 and 35. Will these be
moving up to the mid fifties, and if so why if they are clearing the
top part of the band?

Yes, Black Hill COM 7 and 8 will move to 55/56 in September this year.


Why can they stay where they are? Presumably because it's a SFN, I
suppose?

Although everything above Ch49 is going, there's a guard band at 55/56
that is still allowed for broadcasting until 2022.


Does this mean the likes of BBC Four and BBC News HD will be lost in
2022 or will there be a plan to assimilate them into the main
multiplex? Or indeed will there be a move from DTB-T1 to DVB-T2?

Will the frequencies be the same as Crystal Palace to create a single
frequency network (with other transmitters involved also of course!)?

Yes

What are my prospects of getting these channels with a Group B aerial
and genererally excellent reception conditions?

You might just get away with Group B, (which ends at Ch53) Black Hill
is in an identical position to Sutton Coldfield, where COM 7/8 moved
two weeks ago.


If not, will there be a new wideband aerial optimised for the TV
channels that remain?


That's supposed to be group T I believe, with a built in notch to cut
out 4G.


Thanks, but only needed for four years in my case then I assume Group
B will be okay again. I'm hoping Group B will provide sufficient
signal for these 'out of band' channels.
  #14  
Old March 21st 18, 12:02 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Scott[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,344
Default Blackhill return confusion

On Wed, 21 Mar 2018 12:27:52 +0000 (GMT), Bob Latham
wrote:

In article ,
Mark Carver wrote:

Try the map as seen here


http://tx.mb21.co.uk/gallery/gallery...45&pageid=3337



Thanks Mark, that's miles better.

Thanks, Mark, I checked also for Blackhill:
http://tx.mb21.co.uk/gallery/gallerypage.php?txid=393

How come half the people write it as one word and the other half as
two words?
  #15  
Old March 21st 18, 03:40 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Brian Gaff
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Posts: 7,250
Default Blackhill return confusion

That is just plain stupid. I may as well ask this, but I fear I know the
answer.
If the higher band is being cleared by yet another retune before 2022, then
why not get all the transmitters ready now and enlist a small army of people
to get it done over a couple of days everywhere. This musical chairs
approach seems to be doing nobody any good at all.
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Mark Carver" wrote in message
...
On 21/03/2018 10:40, Bob Latham wrote:
In article ,
Mark Carver wrote:

Yes, Black Hill COM 7 and 8 will move to 55/56 in September this year.


Is there a list of the transmitters and dates for 55/56 anywhere Mark?


I have a spreadsheet, but it's not public domain I'm afraid.

However, the raw data for all sites right up until 2020 seems to be in
Digital UK's postcode checker, so it can be obtained using that on a site
by site basis, plugging in billions of postcodes.


--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.



  #17  
Old March 22nd 18, 09:55 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Scott[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,344
Default Blackhill return confusion

On Wed, 21 Mar 2018 10:27:35 +0000, Mark Carver
wrote:

On 21/03/2018 10:04, Scott wrote:
I would ask a similar question to Max about Blackhill.

At the moment COM7 and COM8 are on channels 32 and 35. Will these be
moving up to the mid fifties, and if so why if they are clearing the
top part of the band?


Yes, Black Hill COM 7 and 8 will move to 55/56 in September this year.

Although everything above Ch49 is going, there's a guard band at 55/56
that is still allowed for broadcasting until 2022.

Will the frequencies be the same as Crystal Palace to create a single
frequency network (with other transmitters involved also of course!)?


Yes

What are my prospects of getting these channels with a Group B aerial
and genererally excellent reception conditions?


You might just get away with Group B, (which ends at Ch53) Black Hill
is in an identical position to Sutton Coldfield, where COM 7/8 moved
two weeks ago.


Just a thought. Will the power output remain the same or will it be
lower because of co-channel interference, or indeed higher because
it's a SFN? I assume the relays won't carry this channel, so maybe
co-channel is less of an issue?

Also, am I right that higher freqencies propagate less well, or is
this immaterial?
  #18  
Old March 22nd 18, 10:06 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Mark Carver[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 439
Default Blackhill return confusion

On 22/03/2018 10:55, Scott wrote:

Just a thought. Will the power output remain the same or will it be
lower because of co-channel interference, or indeed higher because
it's a SFN? I assume the relays won't carry this channel, so maybe
co-channel is less of an issue?


Same output power I think, but in some cases from new aerials further
down the mast, so less coverage overall. It's not just on the receiving
side where you sometimes discover your aerial is suddenly the wrong group !

Also, am I right that higher freqencies propagate less well, or is
this immaterial?


No, the reduced properagtion is very relevant (as is incressed losses
in downleads etc)



--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.
  #19  
Old March 26th 18, 03:10 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Scott[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,344
Default Blackhill return confusion

On Thu, 22 Mar 2018 11:06:38 +0000, Mark Carver
wrote:

On 22/03/2018 10:55, Scott wrote:

Just a thought. Will the power output remain the same or will it be
lower because of co-channel interference, or indeed higher because
it's a SFN? I assume the relays won't carry this channel, so maybe
co-channel is less of an issue?


Same output power I think, but in some cases from new aerials further
down the mast, so less coverage overall. It's not just on the receiving
side where you sometimes discover your aerial is suddenly the wrong group !

Also, am I right that higher freqencies propagate less well, or is
this immaterial?


No, the reduced properagtion is very relevant (as is incressed losses
in downleads etc)


Thanks. My TV is showing both BBC One (channel 43) and BBC News at
100%. Can I be optimistic that 55 and 56 will be sufficient strength
via Group B aerial?
  #20  
Old March 26th 18, 03:30 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Mark Carver[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 439
Default Blackhill return confusion

On 26/03/2018 16:10, Scott wrote:

Thanks. My TV is showing both BBC One (channel 43) and BBC News at
100%. Can I be optimistic that 55 and 56 will be sufficient strength
via Group B aerial?


You can be sure of nothing until it happens ! Ch 43 is in the middle of
Group B's band, 55/56 are just off the edge.

Remember COM 7 and 8 are lower power than the other 6 muxes, about 40kw
instead of 100kw, so just over 3dB down, so not a huge difference there.

That said, I don't think there's been much trouble in Sutton
Coldfield-land, that mirrors what's going to happen at Black Hill ? --
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.
 




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