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Weather warnings



 
 
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  #51  
Old March 18th 18, 10:56 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Peter Duncanson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,272
Default Weather warnings

On Sat, 17 Mar 2018 19:30:22 +0000, Max Demian
wrote:

On 17/03/2018 11:48, Scott wrote:
On Sat, 17 Mar 2018 11:20:13 +0000, Max Demian
wrote:

On 17/03/2018 10:58, NY wrote:
"John Hall" wrote in message
...
In message , Vir Campestris
writes
And if you happen to be red-green colour blind, like about 10% of
men, they're near as dammit identical. Which is why red is _always_
at the top.

I was thinking that the current weather warning colours can't be ideal
for these people, and wondering why they didn't use blue as one of the
colours instead (and for traffic lights too).

Japan used to use blue as the "go" light, and still uses this word to
describe a light which is now the bluest shade of green (or greenest
shade of blue) that they could achieve.

There's no particular logic to red for stop and green for go. Apparently
they come from the red and green port and starboard lights on aeroplanes
and boats, so could have been the other way round.


Are you sure? I thought red was traditionally associated with danger.
Did a red flag not need to be carried in front of motor vehicles long
before traffic lights were introduced?


I think the "red for danger" idea is just a mnemonic. If red was go
people would say that red is a fierce colour implying that you should go
ahead, whereas green is a calm colour implying you should stay put.


The Oxford English Dictionary says that "red for danger" started with
the use of red in "red flag": "A sign of danger, a warning; a signal to
stop".

The choice of red might have been because it is a colour that sticks out
against a natural background of grass, trees, bushes, other plants, etc,
which are typically a mixture of green and brown with other colours in
small amounts, in small areas, in flower petals, etc.

An area of solid red as in a red flag is not normal in nature (unless
blood has been shed profusely).


--
Peter Duncanson
(in uk.tech.digital-tv)
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  #52  
Old March 18th 18, 11:14 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Woody[_5_]
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Posts: 1,865
Default Weather warnings


"NY" wrote in message
o.uk...
"Chris Green" wrote in message
...
Geoff Pearson wrote:

The Yellow and Amber weather zones are a complete mystery.

So they are even if you're *not* colour blind? :-)

Give a warning with a yellow[ish] background I doubt if anyone can
decide reliably whether it's yellow or amber. You'd need one of
each
to be able to tell.



This is part of the problem with the BBROYGBVGW (*) colour codes for
electronic components: there are too many of them, some are very
similar and they are not consistent (grey on one component looks
like violet on another). And that's with good colour vision (as far
as I know, from doing the coloured-spot pictures where you see large
digits embedded in the pattern of dots).

When I left school, I worked for a year in a chemistry lab as a lab
technician before going to university. My boss was telling me about
my predecessor. The lab did a lot of work with colour chemistry,
looking for colour changes to detect presence of certain reagents.
My predecessor got bizarre results that didn't match the
instructions. Other people in the lab tried again and again, and
couldn't get the colour changes that he was reporting. Eventually,
as a throwaway comment, he innocently said "I'm colour-blind. D'you
think that' got anything to do with it." Yes, I think it was highly
likely that it did!


(*) I remember it using the mnemonic Bye Bye Rosie On You Go,
Birmingham Via Great Western, but I'm buggered if I can remember
what the letters stand for - there are three Bs and two Gs. There's
a brown, a black and a blue, and there's a green and a grey. I
*think* it's black, brown, red, orange, yellow, green, blue, violet,
grey, white - but I could well have got the green and the grey
swapped round.


Black=0
Brown=1
Red=2
Orange=3
Yellow=4
Blue=5
Green=6
Violet=7
Grey=8
White-9

and I didn't even have to look it up!


--
Woody

harrogate3 at ntlworld dot com


  #53  
Old March 18th 18, 11:20 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
NY
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,329
Default Weather warnings

"NY" wrote in message
o.uk...
This is part of the problem with the BBROYGBVGW (*) colour codes for
electronic components: there are too many of them, some are very similar
and they are not consistent (grey on one component looks like violet on
another). And that's with good colour vision (as far as I know, from doing
the coloured-spot pictures where you see large digits embedded in the
pattern of dots).


Wire colours can be a problem. A few years ago I replaced our central
heating controller with a Hive remote-controlled device. This has standard
terminals for permanent live/neutral and control wires for central heating
and hot water - those control wires are connected to live by the controller
to turn on the relevant part of the boiler. Both wires were *very* similar
in colour: one was a slightly darker shade of grey than the other, so I
labelled them with a bit of magic tape wrapped around each on, with CH and
HW written on the tape.

That was fine until we were about to move mouse and I had to put back the
old controller. I unwired everything and then pulled the leads out of the
backing box, which ripped off the tape. There was now no way of knowing
which wire was CH and which way HW. I had to make an arbitrary decision,
wire up the controller and see what happened when I turned on CH at the
controller - did the radiators get warm? As it happens, I got it right first
time, but I had a 50:50 chance of being right. You'd think the person
installing the original wiring would have used cable where all the wires
were clearly different colours, rather than one where one wire was black and
the other was very dark grey.

  #54  
Old March 18th 18, 11:28 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Java Jive[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,774
Default Weather warnings

On 18/03/2018 11:56, Peter Duncanson wrote:

The Oxford English Dictionary says that "red for danger" started with
the use of red in "red flag": "A sign of danger, a warning; a signal to
stop".

The choice of red might have been because it is a colour that sticks out
against a natural background of grass, trees, bushes, other plants, etc,
which are typically a mixture of green and brown with other colours in
small amounts, in small areas, in flower petals, etc.


Animals that are poisonous to eat or otherwise dangerous often advertise
the fact by adopting garish colours - yellow frogs, red frogs, yellow
wasps, etc.

An area of solid red as in a red flag is not normal in nature (unless
blood has been shed profusely).


Which means "GO" to vultures!

  #55  
Old March 18th 18, 11:31 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
NY
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,329
Default Weather warnings

"Woody" wrote in message
news

(*) I remember it using the mnemonic Bye Bye Rosie On You Go, Birmingham
Via Great Western, but I'm buggered if I can remember what the letters
stand for - there are three Bs and two Gs. There's a brown, a black and a
blue, and there's a green and a grey. I *think* it's black, brown, red,
orange, yellow, green, blue, violet, grey, white - but I could well have
got the green and the grey swapped round.


Black=0
Brown=1
Red=2
Orange=3
Yellow=4
Blue=5
Green=6
Violet=7
Grey=8
White-9

and I didn't even have to look it up!


I think you might have got your blue and green the wrong way round (it
doesn't fit the mnemonic), but otherwise it looks as if we've both
remembered it the same - and that matches what a Google search gives.

The other mnemonic (which shows similar signs of its age, like mine with its
Great Western reference), is "Buy Better Resistors Or You Grid Bias May Go
West" - using Mauve rather than Violet.

The best mnemonic I heard was a spelling one: Died In A Rolls Royce Having
Over Eaten Again. For the rare times I need to know how to spell that word,
it's invaluable :-)

  #56  
Old March 18th 18, 11:57 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Norman Wells[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 984
Default Weather warnings

On 18/03/2018 12:28, Java Jive wrote:
On 18/03/2018 11:56, Peter Duncanson wrote:

The Oxford English Dictionary says that "red for danger" started with
the use of red in "red flag": "A sign of danger, a warning; a signal to
stop".

The choice of red might have been because it is a colour that sticks out
against a natural background of grass, trees, bushes, other plants, etc,
which are typically a mixture of green and brown with other colours in
small amounts, in small areas, in flower petals, etc.


Animals that are poisonous to eat or otherwise dangerous often advertise
the fact by adopting garish colours¬* -¬* yellow frogs, red frogs, yellow
wasps, etc.


So they say, and it gets mindlessly recycled, but how come I (and lots
of other creatures) happily eat strawberries, rasperries, tomatoes,
watermelons etc etc, and am clearly attracted to eat garish colours?

There's a bit of nonsense going on here.
  #57  
Old March 18th 18, 12:27 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Max Demian
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,970
Default Weather warnings

On 18/03/2018 06:43, Geoff Pearson wrote:

I am colour-blind so find electronics a bit of a chore (although a
licensed radio amateur).¬* Mains cables have three wires, blue, striped
and the other one (which is live).¬* Traffic lights have the top one
(sometimes recognisable as red), the middle one (probably orange or the
same as the top one) and white (at the bottom).¬* City night driving can
be tricky.¬* Ethernet cables have brown, green and orange pairs, so I am
told - impossible.


There was a boy at my school who was colour blind; when we did prisms
and the spectrum he complained that he could only see three colours,
instead of six (or the Newtonian seven). I think he was told to shut up
rather than it being a matter for discussion.

Supposedly the colour blindness gene is retained in the population as
some predator camouflage doesn't work so well for people with the common
kind of colour blindness (usually called red/green), just as there is a
colour vision card that only colour blind people can decipher. The extra
colours confuse the brain.

So you are some use. ;-)

--
Max Demian
  #58  
Old March 18th 18, 12:33 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Max Demian
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,970
Default Weather warnings

On 18/03/2018 12:31, NY wrote:
"Woody" wrote in message
news

(*) I remember it using the mnemonic Bye Bye Rosie On You Go,
Birmingham Via Great Western, but I'm buggered if I can remember what
the letters stand for - there are three Bs and two Gs. There's a
brown, a black and a blue, and there's a green and a grey. I *think*
it's black, brown, red, orange, yellow, green, blue, violet, grey,
white - but I could well have got the green and the grey swapped round.


Black=0
Brown=1
Red=2
Orange=3
Yellow=4
Blue=5
Green=6
Violet=7
Grey=8
White-9

and I didn't even have to look it up!


I think you might have got your blue and green the wrong way round (it
doesn't fit the mnemonic), but otherwise it looks as if we've both
remembered it the same - and that matches what a Google search gives.


I remember the colours of the rainbow intuitively on the basis that,
e.g. orange looks like it has a bit of red and a bit of yellow in it, so
I can remember the colour codes for 2-7 OK and just have to add the
others. In any case when I did electronics I just /knew/ them. Nowadays
it's more difficult as resistor are so tiny that the colour bands look
rather similar. Or maybe the colours they use aren't so distinct. And if
they don't have a silver or gold one end I don't know which end to read
it from.

--
Max Demian
  #59  
Old March 18th 18, 12:35 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Max Demian
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,970
Default Weather warnings

On 18/03/2018 11:56, Peter Duncanson wrote:
On Sat, 17 Mar 2018 19:30:22 +0000, Max Demian
wrote:
On 17/03/2018 11:48, Scott wrote:
On Sat, 17 Mar 2018 11:20:13 +0000, Max Demian
wrote:


There's no particular logic to red for stop and green for go. Apparently
they come from the red and green port and starboard lights on aeroplanes
and boats, so could have been the other way round.

Are you sure? I thought red was traditionally associated with danger.
Did a red flag not need to be carried in front of motor vehicles long
before traffic lights were introduced?


I think the "red for danger" idea is just a mnemonic. If red was go
people would say that red is a fierce colour implying that you should go
ahead, whereas green is a calm colour implying you should stay put.


The Oxford English Dictionary says that "red for danger" started with
the use of red in "red flag": "A sign of danger, a warning; a signal to
stop".


That doesn't explain why red is stop for traffic signals. If red was go
you could say you are putting yourself in danger by going ahead.

--
Max Demian
  #60  
Old March 18th 18, 01:25 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Java Jive[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,774
Default Weather warnings

On 18/03/2018 12:57, Norman Wells wrote:

On 18/03/2018 12:28, Java Jive wrote:

Animals that are poisonous to eat or otherwise dangerous often
advertise the fact by adopting garish colours¬* -¬* yellow frogs, red
frogs, yellow wasps, etc.


So they say, and it gets mindlessly recycled, but how come I (and lots
of other creatures) happily eat strawberries, rasperries, tomatoes,
watermelons etc etc, and am clearly attracted to eat garish colours?


Because you as an omnivore know that plants are different from animals
- you may be quite happy to eat a red strawberry, but if you also eat
frogs a la francais, would you be so keen to eat a red one? My guess is
not! Both have evolved under different evolutionary pressures, and
while we may have only come to understand such things within the last
200 years or so, probably from the earliest times we've associated red
fruits with good eating, but small red animals with bad eating.

Most animals are on someone else's menu, and naturally don't want to get
eaten, so they have evolved cryptic colours that makes them blend in
with their surroundings. However, obviously fair numbers must still get
eaten, because otherwise the predators would have starved into
extinction by now. However if you're very, very poisonous indeed, like
some Amazonian frogs whose mucus is used by Native Amerindians to poison
their blow dart tips, then even one oral contact by a predator is
probably going to end badly for the predator, but it may also end badly
for the frog, so it pays them to stand out from the crowd, and adopt
garish colours to show that they are very different from normal prey.
Predators that survive learn very quickly to associate such garish
colours with a bad experience, and steer clear. Thus it also happens
that some animals that aren't poisonous have evolved colours to mimic
those of similar ones that are, and so avoid predation. However, it's a
numbers game, if there were too many such fakes, particularly if they
outnumber the genuinely poisonous animals they mimic, then predators
would learn to associate garish colours with food, and evolution would
have to slide down the snake and start again at Square 1!

With plants, the signals being given out have evolved differently and
have a different purpose. The 'normal' state of the fruit is green, it
only turns red when it is ripe and ready to eat. The plants don't
'want' - by that I mean that they have evolved in such a way as their
actions can appear superficially to be intentional - the local
fruit-eaters to eat their fruit before the seeds within it have fully
developed, so they make no effort to change its colour from its usual
green, but when the fruit is ripe, they actually 'want' the fruit to be
eaten, so that the seeds will be carried away from the parent tree and
deposited some distance away in a pile of nutritious dung, so they
signal this by changing its colour. Effectively, they are saying to the
fruit-eaters: "Dinner is served!"

There's a bit of nonsense going on here.


Not at all, it's just Darwinian evolution at work.
 




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