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Galileo ever come on stream?



 
 
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  #11  
Old February 21st 18, 09:16 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Jim Lesurf[_2_]
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Posts: 4,326
Default Galileo ever come on stream?

In article , tim...

wrote:
Encryption on the more accurate service - cf eg Sky's charges for TV
packages.


So they can charge you for the "technology" in a chip that decrypts it


but how can they do that on anything other than a "one time fee" model.



No idea what they *are* doing/planning, but given suitable arrangements
they could simply change the encryption 'key' at intervals and require
people to pay a subscription for the new key that suits their RX. If
necessary, each 'key' could even be RX specific given suitable chips, etc.

Jim

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  #12  
Old February 21st 18, 10:00 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
R. Mark Clayton[_2_]
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Posts: 649
Default Galileo ever come on stream?

On Wednesday, 21 February 2018 08:31:55 UTC, tim... wrote:
"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
news
Well all a bit late and too costly unless of course there is a secret deal
to start ramping up the cost of using them with good accuracy.


As this is a passive system, how can they possibly charge people to use it?

tim


Originally GPS had clear acquisition (good for CEP of 50 - 100m) and what was called p-code (good for CEP of 5 - 10m) only available to military types. Fortunately for all of us on 1st May 2000 William Jefferson Clinton made it public domain see: -
http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=58423

very easy you need to have paid to get keys to decode the high resolution service.

thank you Bill!
  #13  
Old February 21st 18, 10:02 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
R. Mark Clayton[_2_]
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Posts: 649
Default Galileo ever come on stream?

On Tuesday, 20 February 2018 23:15:57 UTC, wrote:
On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 08:50:06 -0000, "Brian Gaff"
wrote:

I was listening to a presentation by a company talking about the various
spacecraft supported by their sat nav and they said it was Galileo ready
after a software update.
Now correct me if I'm wrong but it must be at least a decade ago, these
craft were supposed to be going into orbit for the European gps system.
Its still not working? Blimey I bet its cost zillions!
Brian


Galileo IS operational, but not yet with the full complement of
satellites.
Not all smartphones are able to receive it: most new ones can or will.
My Samsung S8+ usually sees and uses 4 or 5 Galileo satellites.


I need to check that out on my S8. I thought it odd that it was seeing more than 12 satellites at once.
  #14  
Old February 21st 18, 10:08 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
R. Mark Clayton[_2_]
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Default Galileo ever come on stream?

On Tuesday, 20 February 2018 22:35:18 UTC, Robin wrote:
[top posted for Brain]

"Galileo, the long-awaited European global navigation satellite systems,
...is expected to be fully operational for 2021.

Alongside it, the European geostationary navigation overlay system
(EGNOS), which improves the accuracy and integrity of the American
global positioning system (GPS) over EU territory, ...is estimated that
by 2020, the EU and European Space Agency will have invested more than
€13 billion in these programmes."

April 2017

from
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegDat...9599406_EN.pdf.



On 20/02/2018 20:04, R. Mark Clayton wrote:
On Tuesday, 20 February 2018 08:50:09 UTC, Brian Gaff wrote:
I was listening to a presentation by a company talking about the various
spacecraft supported by their sat nav and they said it was Galileo ready
after a software update.
Now correct me if I'm wrong but it must be at least a decade ago, these
craft were supposed to be going into orbit for the European gps system.
Its still not working? Blimey I bet its cost zillions!
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!


Fully operational by 2020 (claimed), five billion Euros, however high precision is charged for.



--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid


On GPS there are two main ways service is improved on the ground: -

1. Differential GPS. Ground stations who position is known make the errors detected at their position known over the net. Receivers within a few hundred km can make the same correction to improve accuracy. Now more or less redundant.

2. Assisted GPS. Current almanac can be downloaded in seconds from the web, instead of waiting up to 25 minutes for it to arrive directly from the satellite(s). This means location can be quickly established on start up.
  #15  
Old February 21st 18, 10:19 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
NY
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Posts: 1,329
Default Galileo ever come on stream?

"R. Mark Clayton" wrote in message
...
2. Assisted GPS. Current almanac can be downloaded in seconds from the
web, instead of waiting up to 25 minutes for it to arrive directly from
the satellite(s). This means location can be quickly established on start
up.


A-GPS is a really godsend when trying to get a GPS fix when a receiver's GPS
has been switched off (to save battery power) and if the receiver has been
moved during the off-time. On my Android phone I use an app called GPS
Status (by MobiWIA) which can use wifi or mobile phone internet to get the
almanac.

How large is the almanac? Why is it transmitted so infrequently, given the
worldwide problem of switching a GPS receiver off and on, rather than
leaving it on all the time and thus draining the battery?

GPS position errors are weird. I can understand that a small number of
satellites in view, maybe with multipath reflections, can cause random
errors in readings. But what causes systematic errors such that maybe
several minutes of readings are all displaced by a constant amount, leading
to a track that follows the map perfectly (ie with very little *random*
error), but is offset from it by a fixed distance.

  #16  
Old February 21st 18, 10:54 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Alan White[_3_]
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Default Galileo ever come on stream?

On Wed, 21 Feb 2018 03:08:19 -0800 (PST), "R. Mark Clayton"
wrote:

Current almanac can be downloaded in seconds from the web, instead of waiting up to 25 minutes for it to arrive directly from the satellite(s)


I thought it was twelve minutes.

--
Alan White
Mozilla Firefox and Forte Agent.
In Helensburgh, Scotland.
Weather:- http://windycroft.co.uk/weather
  #17  
Old February 21st 18, 11:13 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Unsteadyken
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Posts: 11
Default Galileo ever come on stream?

In article ,
says...
Originally GPS had clear acquisition (good for CEP of 50 - 100m) and what
was called p-code (good for CEP of 5 - 10m) only available to military

types. Fortunately for all of us on 1st May 2000 William Jefferson
Clinton made it public domain see: -
http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=58423

In 1990, using an aircraft GPS unit fitted in a taxi, the accuracy was
sufficient to show which side of the road or lane of a motorway the cab
was driving on, even tracking them accurately round roundabouts.
Plenty good enough for civilian use.


  #18  
Old February 21st 18, 11:16 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Andy Burns[_12_]
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Posts: 573
Default Galileo ever come on stream?

R. Mark Clayton wrote:

I thought it odd that it was seeing more than 12 satellites at once.


I'm seeing 19 satellites now in gpsstatus
https://mobiwia.com/gpsstatus

But they're all circles (for GPS) and squares (for GLONASS) no crosses
(for BEIDOU) or plus symbols (for GALILEO) I guess a snapdragon 808
doesn't see chinese/european satellites?

  #19  
Old February 21st 18, 11:26 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
NY
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Posts: 1,329
Default Galileo ever come on stream?

"Unsteadyken" wrote in message
T...
In article ,
says...
Originally GPS had clear acquisition (good for CEP of 50 - 100m) and what
was called p-code (good for CEP of 5 - 10m) only available to military

types. Fortunately for all of us on 1st May 2000 William Jefferson
Clinton made it public domain see: -
http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=58423

In 1990, using an aircraft GPS unit fitted in a taxi, the accuracy was
sufficient to show which side of the road or lane of a motorway the cab
was driving on, even tracking them accurately round roundabouts.
Plenty good enough for civilian use.


If clear acquisition had an error of 50-100 m before 2000, that suggests
that the 1990 aircraft GPS in the taxi could see p-code if it had sufficient
accuracy to distinguish one lane or side of the road from the other - ie
that it was military spec. Mind you, if you average enough readings to
eliminate noise, you can probably get a position which is known to much
better than 50-100 m.

I presume Bill Clinton's decree made p-code available to all.

Currently, inside a stone-walled cottage, I can see 9 satellites and have a
reported error (in GPS Status app) of 25 m. Out in the open, with more
satellites in view, I've had errors of about 5 m.

  #20  
Old February 21st 18, 12:56 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
tim...[_2_]
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Default Galileo ever come on stream?



"R. Mark Clayton" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 21 February 2018 08:31:55 UTC, tim... wrote:
"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
news
Well all a bit late and too costly unless of course there is a secret
deal
to start ramping up the cost of using them with good accuracy.


As this is a passive system, how can they possibly charge people to use
it?

tim


Originally GPS had clear acquisition (good for CEP of 50 - 100m) and what
was called p-code (good for CEP of 5 - 10m) only available to military
types. Fortunately for all of us on 1st May 2000 William Jefferson
Clinton made it public domain see: -


That was because individual countries that started to develop differential
GPS services.

A receiver at a know location would calculate the crippled location value as
received from the sat and transmit an instantaneous correction for all GPS
receivers in their area to use to adjust their calculated result to a more
exact value.

The alternative method some GPS receivers used, because the error was +/- a
random figure, was to average multiple readings over time to get a more
exact position

It worked well for lat and long but was pretty useless for height (I leave
it as an exercise for the reader as to why) - of course this only worked if
you were moving slowly (or not at all)

tim







 




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