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Global positioning



 
 
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  #51  
Old February 18th 18, 12:31 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Graham.[_12_]
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Posts: 472
Default Global positioning

On 17/02/2018 17:26, R. Mark Clayton wrote:

Once you get something a little more complex, like an 1103 Dram or a 4004 processor, show the internal components is totally impracticable, even if they maker will tell you what they even are.

That is the sort of reply I got from the magazine, see below

He replied that the modern microprocessor had many thousand on-board
components and it was neither practical to find the space to print such
a circuit nor to expect the typical magazine reader to work out the
paths through it.


BUT

He missed the point that the vast majority of the circuits had simpler
chips like Op Amps and 555_Timers and the like, and a series of "How
things work" for the most popular chips would have given a useful
insight into the magic performed by these ICs.


That is the level of complexity I was interested in.

I built a zero voltage switching thermostat out of basic components - if
I remember rightly it had 18 transistors and a fair number of passive
components. I could, at the time, have bought a single chip to do the
same thing, but where was the fun in that?

Jim


In those pre-Internet days I had a ring-binder stuffed with
manufacturers data sheets for the common chips
--

Graham.
%Profound_observation%
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  #52  
Old February 18th 18, 07:14 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
charles[_2_]
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Posts: 699
Default Global positioning

In article ,
Graham. wrote:
Sigh, In fact the concept of all those things is explainable without going
into the detail.I don't think many teachers understand things enough to go
to the conceptual level on modern stuff.
Brian



Yeah, like the seven colours of the rainbow, and the two different
kinds of electricity.


How I wish my science teacher told me the truth, "We don't really
understand the nature of matter, but here's a useful analogy involving
nuclei and orbiting electrons".


or, as my physics teacher said of atomic physics " It's far to complex for
God to have invented, but I've got to teach it to you anyway" (he was a
CofE cleryman)

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
  #53  
Old February 18th 18, 07:34 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
tim...[_2_]
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Posts: 619
Default Global positioning



"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
news
I ride in a lot of taxis, and am often amused by the sat nav that many of
the non English drivers seem to use. In the country they are fine, but in
the built up towns you often get them missing turns and all sorts. One guy
said to me in a broken English, I blame all this satellite TV for
interfering with them.


When I am at home out in the sticks the sat nav on my tablet gets a position
for me even from inside the house

when I go to Central London, even when standing in the middle of an open
area, it is completely ****ed

(which I knew why!)

tim



  #54  
Old February 18th 18, 08:25 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
charles[_2_]
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Posts: 699
Default Global positioning

In article , tim...
wrote:


"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
news
I ride in a lot of taxis, and am often amused by the sat nav that many
of the non English drivers seem to use. In the country they are fine,
but in the built up towns you often get them missing turns and all
sorts. One guy said to me in a broken English, I blame all this
satellite TV for interfering with them.


When I am at home out in the sticks the sat nav on my tablet gets a
position for me even from inside the house


when I go to Central London, even when standing in the middle of an open
area, it is completely ****ed


(which I knew why!)


Stell & Concrete urban canyons

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
  #55  
Old February 18th 18, 08:29 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Jim Lesurf[_2_]
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Posts: 4,326
Default Global positioning

In article , R.
Mark Clayton wrote:

Really - even 45+ years ago they just showed logic gates on 7400 series
chips, not the internal transistors.


Yes. I still have a box of plasticised cards that TI handed out for the 74
series TTL. They show the gate/pin layouts. Two-sided cards with one side
showing the 'top' view and the other the 'underside' view. Quite handy in
the days when I was embroidering logic using 74xx chips.

Once you get something a little more complex, like an 1103 Dram or a
4004 processor, show the internal components is totally impracticable,
even if they maker will tell you what they even are.


The real distinction here is that in the past it was usual for pretty much
all devices to be able to get clear functional diagrams with pinouts,
specs, and even some simply examples of their use. Whereas nowdays there
tends to be no public access to such info. Nor can you get the chips. And
the equipment may be made in a way that makes even an attempt to open it
and repair likely to destroy the item.

Given the way such devices do tend to misbehave or break down, this then
leads to problems which force the user to have to bin them and buy
something else rather than get a repair. Useful for makers as a form of
'planned obsolence' but a PITA and added cost for the rest of us.

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa...o/electron.htm
biog http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/history/ups_and_downs.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

  #56  
Old February 18th 18, 08:39 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Robin[_8_]
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Posts: 506
Default Global positioning

On 17/02/2018 16:43, Jim Lesurf wrote:
In article , Clive Page
wrote:
On 16/02/2018 17:01, Jim Lesurf wrote:
As for the fusion timescale, we're winning if it now down to 20 years
away! It always used to be 50 years away. :-)


It's now likely to be even further away than that. A price we shall pay
for leaving the ECJ jurisdiction is, apparently, also leaving the
Euroatom agreement: Mrs May has said this so it must be true. As a
result the Joint European Torus research establishment in Culham has no
source of funding after March 2019 it may well have to close.


That is a worry for fusion research. But a number of groups of the
researchers have already moved to being company-based to try the smaller
systems which they now feel may be viable. Know this because some of them
were at JET mumble years ago when I was making some electronics for them.


I'm puzzled as to why it's seen as such a clear cut break when ITER is
already a project involving not just the EU but also the USA, Russia,
China et al.

And one question I've not seen answered is if the "divorce bill"
includes the UK continuing to contribute to the cost of ITER does the UK
continue to have access etc?


--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid
  #57  
Old February 18th 18, 08:45 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
John J Armstrong
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Posts: 73
Default Global positioning

On Sat, 17 Feb 2018 09:30:51 +0000 (GMT), Jim Lesurf
wrote:


Sadly, true on at least two levels. Sealed cases with no obvious way to
open them short of breakage. Then inside a set of tiny surface mount ICs
wit mysterious part numbers. Often ones where no details of the content is
public.

50 years ago makers might be proud to have provided a circuit diagram to
show you that they thought their design was a good one and to help the
buyer.

Now they rely on the 'magic' to hike the price and prevent repairs from
delaying your buying the latest model.

Jim


Indeed. In the early 70s we had an RGD (I think) VHF mains/portable
radio. Its instructions included a circuit diagram, and a component
layout. When stereo FM arrived in our part of the country I bought a
Sinclair decoder and was easily able to connect it to the radio before
the de-emphasis circuit. My first stereo radio!
  #58  
Old February 18th 18, 09:06 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Indy Jess John
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Posts: 1,307
Default Global positioning

On 17/02/2018 23:08, Java Jive wrote:

We must concentrate on what we've got, which is lots of fossil fuels.


Unfortunately, mostly in mines flooded on Margaret Thatcher's orders.
Although not impossible, getting them productive again is not going to
be at all easy.

Also, because we believe in taxing commercial exploitation rather than
owning the wells, the Government has no control over the oil or natural
gas resources, and commercial companies cannot be forced to supply what
they extract to the UK.

Jim
  #59  
Old February 18th 18, 09:16 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
[email protected]
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Posts: 234
Default Global positioning

On Saturday, 17 February 2018 20:22:55 UTC, wrote:
My grandson said "No it's just a smoke machine and
coloured lights". He'll go far.

Poor little sod might end up working for the BBC!


I doubt it; I think belief in dragons is compulsory in the media.

Different sorts of dragons of course - the BBC believe in nice multicoloured dragons, the Daily Mail think that nasty foreign dragons will steal the jobs of good British dragons, and the Daily Express are worried about the effect on house prices if a dragon moves in next door.

Owain
  #60  
Old February 18th 18, 09:23 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Robin[_8_]
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Posts: 506
Default Global positioning

On 18/02/2018 10:06, Indy Jess John wrote:
On 17/02/2018 23:08, Java Jive wrote:

We must concentrate on what we've got, which is lots of fossil fuels.


Unfortunately, mostly in mines flooded on Margaret Thatcher's orders.
Although not impossible, getting them productive again is not going to
be at all easy.


JOOI do you reckon she was also responsible for the flooding of the
French coal mines (which have also closed)?


--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid
 




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