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Freeview swizzling sound tracks



 
 
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  #1  
Old January 29th 18, 03:15 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Brian Gaff
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,250
Default Freeview swizzling sound tracks

Seems to me that the bit rate of many sound tracks on freeview channels are
getting far worse than before, including obvious artifacts of low bit rates
and the phase distortions you hear in mp3s recorded at 128kbits a sec or
less.
There seems to be a race for the bottom going on, not just in the sort of
rubbish we are offered but the transmission quality as well.
its all part of the losing the plot world we live in. i have for example a
cd/dvd player here which sounds excelent but has one flaw any real cd player
should not have, it ducks between tracks, so there you are listening to the
classical cd with track markers that should not be heard, and hey presto it
ducks the sound. I expect more from Panasonic than this, Software operating
cds has been standard for may years, so why re invent the thing badly. OK so
the player can play mp3 cds and dvds and even ram stick recordings, but all
with this strange issue.
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!


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  #2  
Old January 29th 18, 03:23 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
JNugent[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 241
Default Freeview swizzling sound tracks

On 29/01/2018 16:15, Brian Gaff wrote:
Seems to me that the bit rate of many sound tracks on freeview channels are
getting far worse than before, including obvious artifacts of low bit rates
and the phase distortions you hear in mp3s recorded at 128kbits a sec or
less.
There seems to be a race for the bottom going on, not just in the sort of
rubbish we are offered but the transmission quality as well.
its all part of the losing the plot world we live in. i have for example a
cd/dvd player here which sounds excelent but has one flaw any real cd player
should not have, it ducks between tracks, so there you are listening to the
classical cd with track markers that should not be heard, and hey presto it
ducks the sound. I expect more from Panasonic than this, Software operating
cds has been standard for may years, so why re invent the thing badly. OK so
the player can play mp3 cds and dvds and even ram stick recordings, but all
with this strange issue.
Brian


If by "ducks between track" you mean that it inserts an unwonted brief
silence between tracks, VLC Player does the same, and so does Cyberlink
PowerDVD (which was on this PC when new and which plays CDs as well as
DVDs).

Windows Media Player, and my Sony CD-player, do not. CDs and CD-Rs of
live concerts play seamlessly on those, with just the display changing
to let you know that the track has changed.
  #3  
Old January 29th 18, 05:59 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Roderick Stewart[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,246
Default Freeview swizzling sound tracks

Many CD players seem to be bad at this. Where there is an actual pause
between movements of a classical work, a slight hiatus doesn't matter,
but if the music is meant to run continuously it's be very annoying.

Some CD players can do it correctly and some can't. I once had a
player (can't remember the make) that would play continuous movements
correctly if I just navigated to the beginning of the first one and
remembered to press the stop button at the end, but would hiccup
between tracks if I programmed the tracks I wanted into a list. I
suspect many of the people who design this stuff probably don't listen
to classical music.

Rod.

On Mon, 29 Jan 2018 16:15:10 -0000, "Brian Gaff"
wrote:

i have for example a
cd/dvd player here which sounds excelent but has one flaw any real cd player
should not have, it ducks between tracks, so there you are listening to the
classical cd with track markers that should not be heard, and hey presto it
ducks the sound.

  #4  
Old January 29th 18, 06:26 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Johnny B Good[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 513
Default Freeview swizzling sound tracks

On Mon, 29 Jan 2018 16:15:10 +0000, Brian Gaff wrote:

====snip====

its all part of the losing the plot world we live in. I have for
example a
cd/dvd player here which sounds excelent but has one flaw any real cd
player should not have, it ducks between tracks, so there you are
listening to the classical cd with track markers that should not be
heard, and hey presto it ducks the sound. I expect more from Panasonic
than this, Software operating cds has been standard for may years, so
why re invent the thing badly. OK so the player can play mp3 cds and
dvds and even ram stick recordings, but all with this strange issue.


Can I assume that you are referring to commercially pressed CDs which,
when played on another CD player, *doesn't* duck the sound at the track
boundaries or are you referring to CD tracks that have been ripped to
recordable media such as CD-R and/or CD+R using CD Burning software?

It's been well over a decade since I last burnt any audio CDs but I do
remember the problem I had creating CDs from ripped tape and vinyl where
the audio CD burning software (Nero5 in my case) kept introducing
unwanted two second gaps between the seperate tracks very much against my
wishes.

Prior to slicing each digitised album or tape into seperate wav files, I
used to simply burn the whole of each album side (whether direct from the
vinyl or a reel to reel tape copy) as a single track which preserved the
original inter-track timings. This, however, meant I couldn't easily drop
onto an individual 'track', hence my discovering the two second of
silence between tracks after going to the trouble of slicing and dicing
my digitisations of each whole side of an album.

It took a bit of close scrutiny of the user guide and some
experimentation to work out how to configure the track burning list to
eliminate the (by default) two second inter-track gaps before I could
recreate an audibly exact copy of the source material whilst retaining
the convenience of seperate numerically identifiable tracks that I could
elect to "drop the stylus onto".

I suspect you may be experiencing this problem with your own home burned
CD compilations, hence my anecdote above. If this is a symptom that can't
be duplicated using other CD players, you have my condolences for being
the disgruntled owner of a piece of non-compliant crap.

--
Johnny B Good
  #5  
Old January 29th 18, 06:53 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Brian Gaff
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,250
Default Freeview swizzling sound tracks

Yes but this is a stand alone dvd cd player and one would expect this on mp3
cds but not normal ones.
I think they have in effect just cobbled together a computer in the box and
used crap software for the cd part.

It was only cheap but if I go out and buy aa new device I will now need to
audition it in this way before I buy one in case its the same.
My Marantz cd player is having serious issues with cds recorded on my pc,
ie not even starting or losing its way part way through, yet it plays cdrws
perfectly, which have to be less reflective than a standard cdr made on the
same writer.
Bah humbug.
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"JNugent" wrote in message
...
On 29/01/2018 16:15, Brian Gaff wrote:
Seems to me that the bit rate of many sound tracks on freeview channels
are
getting far worse than before, including obvious artifacts of low bit
rates
and the phase distortions you hear in mp3s recorded at 128kbits a sec or
less.
There seems to be a race for the bottom going on, not just in the sort
of
rubbish we are offered but the transmission quality as well.
its all part of the losing the plot world we live in. i have for
example a
cd/dvd player here which sounds excelent but has one flaw any real cd
player
should not have, it ducks between tracks, so there you are listening to
the
classical cd with track markers that should not be heard, and hey presto
it
ducks the sound. I expect more from Panasonic than this, Software
operating
cds has been standard for may years, so why re invent the thing badly. OK
so
the player can play mp3 cds and dvds and even ram stick recordings, but
all
with this strange issue.
Brian


If by "ducks between track" you mean that it inserts an unwonted brief
silence between tracks, VLC Player does the same, and so does Cyberlink
PowerDVD (which was on this PC when new and which plays CDs as well as
DVDs).

Windows Media Player, and my Sony CD-player, do not. CDs and CD-Rs of live
concerts play seamlessly on those, with just the display changing to let
you know that the track has changed.



  #6  
Old January 29th 18, 06:55 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Max Demian
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,970
Default Freeview swizzling sound tracks

On 29/01/2018 16:15, Brian Gaff wrote:
Seems to me that the bit rate of many sound tracks on freeview channels are
getting far worse than before, including obvious artifacts of low bit rates
and the phase distortions you hear in mp3s recorded at 128kbits a sec or
less.
There seems to be a race for the bottom going on, not just in the sort of
rubbish we are offered but the transmission quality as well.
its all part of the losing the plot world we live in. i have for example a
cd/dvd player here which sounds excelent but has one flaw any real cd player
should not have, it ducks between tracks, so there you are listening to the
classical cd with track markers that should not be heard, and hey presto it
ducks the sound. I expect more from Panasonic than this, Software operating
cds has been standard for may years, so why re invent the thing badly. OK so
the player can play mp3 cds and dvds and even ram stick recordings, but all
with this strange issue.


I've never known a CD player that couldn't play a continuous "album
side" consisting of tracks that run into each other correctly. If it's a
commercial audio CD. There's a single spiral track of pits and the track
markers are just directory entries of some sort.

Anything consisting of separate sound files, whether MP3 or something
lossless may have trouble with this depending on whether the player
software can load the next file in time and stitch them together before
they play.

If the CD is burnt at home, even if an audio CD (as opposed to MP3 &c.),
may give trouble depending on the mastering software.

--
Max Demian
  #7  
Old January 29th 18, 06:57 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Brian Gaff
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,250
Default Freeview swizzling sound tracks

Its not just classical music. I make segwayed mood cds with track markers
just for convenience and most old school cd players cope will as long as you
play it end to end as it should, but this one will always fade and come up
at the marker. Its what you often get for mp3 cds as the word length is not
the same as a standard red book cd where it is purely a marker. I can make
cds with no gaps and track markers and should be able to play them.


Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Roderick Stewart" wrote in message
...
Many CD players seem to be bad at this. Where there is an actual pause
between movements of a classical work, a slight hiatus doesn't matter,
but if the music is meant to run continuously it's be very annoying.

Some CD players can do it correctly and some can't. I once had a
player (can't remember the make) that would play continuous movements
correctly if I just navigated to the beginning of the first one and
remembered to press the stop button at the end, but would hiccup
between tracks if I programmed the tracks I wanted into a list. I
suspect many of the people who design this stuff probably don't listen
to classical music.

Rod.

On Mon, 29 Jan 2018 16:15:10 -0000, "Brian Gaff"
wrote:

i have for example a
cd/dvd player here which sounds excelent but has one flaw any real cd
player
should not have, it ducks between tracks, so there you are listening to
the
classical cd with track markers that should not be heard, and hey presto
it
ducks the sound.



  #8  
Old January 29th 18, 06:59 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Brian Gaff
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,250
Default Freeview swizzling sound tracks

Both I know all about disc at once and track at once writing. fixed that
ages ago. However commercial ones and my own do the same thing.
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Johnny B Good" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 29 Jan 2018 16:15:10 +0000, Brian Gaff wrote:

====snip====

its all part of the losing the plot world we live in. I have for
example a
cd/dvd player here which sounds excelent but has one flaw any real cd
player should not have, it ducks between tracks, so there you are
listening to the classical cd with track markers that should not be
heard, and hey presto it ducks the sound. I expect more from Panasonic
than this, Software operating cds has been standard for may years, so
why re invent the thing badly. OK so the player can play mp3 cds and
dvds and even ram stick recordings, but all with this strange issue.


Can I assume that you are referring to commercially pressed CDs which,
when played on another CD player, *doesn't* duck the sound at the track
boundaries or are you referring to CD tracks that have been ripped to
recordable media such as CD-R and/or CD+R using CD Burning software?

It's been well over a decade since I last burnt any audio CDs but I do
remember the problem I had creating CDs from ripped tape and vinyl where
the audio CD burning software (Nero5 in my case) kept introducing
unwanted two second gaps between the seperate tracks very much against my
wishes.

Prior to slicing each digitised album or tape into seperate wav files, I
used to simply burn the whole of each album side (whether direct from the
vinyl or a reel to reel tape copy) as a single track which preserved the
original inter-track timings. This, however, meant I couldn't easily drop
onto an individual 'track', hence my discovering the two second of
silence between tracks after going to the trouble of slicing and dicing
my digitisations of each whole side of an album.

It took a bit of close scrutiny of the user guide and some
experimentation to work out how to configure the track burning list to
eliminate the (by default) two second inter-track gaps before I could
recreate an audibly exact copy of the source material whilst retaining
the convenience of seperate numerically identifiable tracks that I could
elect to "drop the stylus onto".

I suspect you may be experiencing this problem with your own home burned
CD compilations, hence my anecdote above. If this is a symptom that can't
be duplicated using other CD players, you have my condolences for being
the disgruntled owner of a piece of non-compliant crap.

--
Johnny B Good



  #9  
Old January 29th 18, 07:00 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Brian Gaff
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,250
Default Freeview swizzling sound tracks

Nobody interested in commenting on the original point then.
Its about time also that tv makers put decent speakers in their sets.
brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Johnny B Good" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 29 Jan 2018 16:15:10 +0000, Brian Gaff wrote:

====snip====

its all part of the losing the plot world we live in. I have for
example a
cd/dvd player here which sounds excelent but has one flaw any real cd
player should not have, it ducks between tracks, so there you are
listening to the classical cd with track markers that should not be
heard, and hey presto it ducks the sound. I expect more from Panasonic
than this, Software operating cds has been standard for may years, so
why re invent the thing badly. OK so the player can play mp3 cds and
dvds and even ram stick recordings, but all with this strange issue.


Can I assume that you are referring to commercially pressed CDs which,
when played on another CD player, *doesn't* duck the sound at the track
boundaries or are you referring to CD tracks that have been ripped to
recordable media such as CD-R and/or CD+R using CD Burning software?

It's been well over a decade since I last burnt any audio CDs but I do
remember the problem I had creating CDs from ripped tape and vinyl where
the audio CD burning software (Nero5 in my case) kept introducing
unwanted two second gaps between the seperate tracks very much against my
wishes.

Prior to slicing each digitised album or tape into seperate wav files, I
used to simply burn the whole of each album side (whether direct from the
vinyl or a reel to reel tape copy) as a single track which preserved the
original inter-track timings. This, however, meant I couldn't easily drop
onto an individual 'track', hence my discovering the two second of
silence between tracks after going to the trouble of slicing and dicing
my digitisations of each whole side of an album.

It took a bit of close scrutiny of the user guide and some
experimentation to work out how to configure the track burning list to
eliminate the (by default) two second inter-track gaps before I could
recreate an audibly exact copy of the source material whilst retaining
the convenience of seperate numerically identifiable tracks that I could
elect to "drop the stylus onto".

I suspect you may be experiencing this problem with your own home burned
CD compilations, hence my anecdote above. If this is a symptom that can't
be duplicated using other CD players, you have my condolences for being
the disgruntled owner of a piece of non-compliant crap.

--
Johnny B Good



  #10  
Old January 29th 18, 07:11 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
NY
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,329
Default Freeview swizzling sound tracks

"Johnny B Good" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 29 Jan 2018 16:15:10 +0000, Brian Gaff wrote:

====snip====

its all part of the losing the plot world we live in. I have for
example a
cd/dvd player here which sounds excelent but has one flaw any real cd
player should not have, it ducks between tracks, so there you are
listening to the classical cd with track markers that should not be
heard, and hey presto it ducks the sound. I expect more from Panasonic
than this, Software operating cds has been standard for may years, so
why re invent the thing badly. OK so the player can play mp3 cds and
dvds and even ram stick recordings, but all with this strange issue.


Can I assume that you are referring to commercially pressed CDs which,
when played on another CD player, *doesn't* duck the sound at the track
boundaries or are you referring to CD tracks that have been ripped to
recordable media such as CD-R and/or CD+R using CD Burning software?

It's been well over a decade since I last burnt any audio CDs but I do
remember the problem I had creating CDs from ripped tape and vinyl where
the audio CD burning software (Nero5 in my case) kept introducing
unwanted two second gaps between the seperate tracks very much against my
wishes.

Prior to slicing each digitised album or tape into seperate wav files, I
used to simply burn the whole of each album side (whether direct from the
vinyl or a reel to reel tape copy) as a single track which preserved the
original inter-track timings. This, however, meant I couldn't easily drop
onto an individual 'track', hence my discovering the two second of
silence between tracks after going to the trouble of slicing and dicing
my digitisations of each whole side of an album.


Yes. Either you trim the tracks so they begin and end exactly on the sound,
or else you mute the audio (to remove tape hiss or record crackles) and
leave in the gap, dividing it roughly equally between the end of track n and
the beginning of track n+1.

 




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