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Freeview swizzling sound tracks



 
 
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  #11  
Old January 29th 18, 09:56 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Unsteadyken
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Posts: 11
Default Freeview swizzling sound tracks

In article ,
says...
Nobody interested in commenting on the original point then.

I've not noted swizzling or other artefacts.
Do you find this on all channels or just some?



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  #12  
Old January 29th 18, 11:12 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Johnny B Good[_2_]
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Posts: 513
Default Freeview swizzling sound tracks

On Mon, 29 Jan 2018 19:59:04 +0000, Brian Gaff wrote:

Both I know all about disc at once and track at once writing. fixed that
ages ago. However commercial ones and my own do the same thing.
Brian


In which case, Brian, my apologies for 'teaching granny how to suck
eggs'. :-)

I guess you've every right be annoyed with the player. I suspect you're
probably not too far off the mark, if at all, in your assessment of the
nature of the (self inflicted) problem.

Since you mentioned the phrase "ram stick recordings" I presume you
meant flash memory stick recordings, as in USB pen drives, implying the
existence of a USB socket. That being the case, there's a slim chance
that there might be a downloadable firmware upgrade to fix this issue
which can be installed via the USB port from a flash memory pen drive. It
might be worth doing an on line search before looking for a replacement.
You just never know your luck.

--
Johnny B Good
  #14  
Old January 30th 18, 12:33 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Johnny B Good[_2_]
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Posts: 513
Default Freeview swizzling sound tracks

On Mon, 29 Jan 2018 20:11:28 +0000, NY wrote:

"Johnny B Good" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 29 Jan 2018 16:15:10 +0000, Brian Gaff wrote:

====snip====

its all part of the losing the plot world we live in. I have for
example a
cd/dvd player here which sounds excelent but has one flaw any real cd
player should not have, it ducks between tracks, so there you are
listening to the classical cd with track markers that should not be
heard, and hey presto it ducks the sound. I expect more from Panasonic
than this, Software operating cds has been standard for may years, so
why re invent the thing badly. OK so the player can play mp3 cds and
dvds and even ram stick recordings, but all with this strange issue.


Can I assume that you are referring to commercially pressed CDs which,
when played on another CD player, *doesn't* duck the sound at the track
boundaries or are you referring to CD tracks that have been ripped to
recordable media such as CD-R and/or CD+R using CD Burning software?

It's been well over a decade since I last burnt any audio CDs but I do
remember the problem I had creating CDs from ripped tape and vinyl
where the audio CD burning software (Nero5 in my case) kept introducing
unwanted two second gaps between the seperate tracks very much against
my wishes.

Prior to slicing each digitised album or tape into seperate wav files,
I used to simply burn the whole of each album side (whether direct from
the vinyl or a reel to reel tape copy) as a single track which
preserved the original inter-track timings. This, however, meant I
couldn't easily drop onto an individual 'track', hence my discovering
the two second of silence between tracks after going to the trouble of
slicing and dicing my digitisations of each whole side of an album.


Yes. Either you trim the tracks so they begin and end exactly on the
sound, or else you mute the audio (to remove tape hiss or record
crackles) and leave in the gap, dividing it roughly equally between the
end of track n and the beginning of track n+1.


In my case, eliminating tape hiss and/or groove noise was never my aim
when submitting a sliced and diced compilation of a digitised album or
tape to the burning list. Any cleanup of intertrack groove noise was done
prior to the slicing and dicing. Tape hiss was never an issue with the R2R
recordings which were done at 9.5cm/s, mostly on Maxel UD35-90B and
UD35-180B tape on a much improved Akai GX630DB tape deck with the Dolby NR
enabled.

My concern was over the *additional* two seconds of silence that the
audio CD burning option "so helpfully" inserted between tracks by
default. Selecting TaO or DaO (I forget which) was insufficient by
itself, you also had to edit out the automatically applied 2 seconds of
silence at the end of each track in the track burning list to restore the
original track timings.

That additional two seconds of silence wasn't a great issue when the
track burning list consisted only of 'Side 1' and 'Side 2' but it became
an annoyance once I'd decided to slice 'Sides 1 and 2' into a bunch of
tracks to allow me to 'drop the needle' onto the start of any chosen
track during CD playback.

Splitting a vinyl recording that's been made in a studio into individual
tracks is a fairly trivial task when the tracks have been laid down as
seperate and discreet musical numbers. It's Live Performances or concept
albums where the track splitting becomes a little more complicated.

However, I quickly cottoned onto the basic rule which was to choose a
splitting point where it sounds right for the beginning of the next track
even if this is in the middle of the fade out of the current track (with
live performances this was typically to the sound of audience applause).
Having the splitting point just before the fadeout of the current track
has completed doesn't matter since a standards compliant CD player will
just carry on playing through into the next track anyway.

--
Johnny B Good
  #15  
Old January 30th 18, 01:13 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Johnny B Good[_2_]
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Posts: 513
Default Freeview swizzling sound tracks

On Mon, 29 Jan 2018 19:55:50 +0000, Max Demian wrote:

====snip====

I've never known a CD player that couldn't play a continuous "album
side" consisting of tracks that run into each other correctly. If it's a
commercial audio CD. There's a single spiral track of pits and the track
markers are just directory entries of some sort.

Anything consisting of separate sound files, whether MP3 or something
lossless may have trouble with this depending on whether the player
software can load the next file in time and stitch them together before
they play.


If you've created a 'gapless' audio CD (see below), the player software
will quite happily play such a string of tracks without pause just as a
cheap audio CD player would (the two second gaps are literally two
seconds of silence inserted between the audio tracks by the audio CD
creation software.


If the CD is burnt at home, even if an audio CD (as opposed to MP3 &c.),
may give trouble depending on the mastering software.


Once you become aware of the CD burning software's obligatory appending
of two seconds of 'silence' to each wav file in the track burning list
when using the music CD burning interface, you can highlight all the wavs
and select the 'Properties' box wherein you can then alter or remove this
two seconds of silence en masse (this was the case with, air, Nero5 - it
might be a little different with other CD Burning software). As far as I
can recall, you also had to choose either DaO or TaO -I forget which- in
order for this to work.

A standards compliant CD player will play a suitably mastered audio CD
as one continuous track, including any two second periods of silence that
the CD mastering software may have appended to each of the individual wav
files in its "burn to CD list". Brian's Panasonic CD player is clearly
not standards compliant, hence the inter-track ducking of the audio
playback level.

--
Johnny B Good
  #16  
Old January 30th 18, 07:08 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Roderick Stewart[_3_]
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Posts: 2,246
Default Freeview swizzling sound tracks

On Mon, 29 Jan 2018 19:26:08 GMT, Johnny B Good
wrote:

Can I assume that you are referring to commercially pressed CDs which,
when played on another CD player, *doesn't* duck the sound at the track
boundaries[...]?


I think that is what he's referring to, and I can confirm I've
observed the same effect.

A typical pop album will be a collection of separate songs with brief
pauses between them, and a great many classical works will also be
divided into different "movements", usually intended to be played with
pauses between them, but occasionally not. Even when movements of a
symphony or concerto are played without breaks, as their composers
intended, it's usual for CD recordings to include the same metadata
markers as for separate tracks, and when a player handles this
correctly you will see the indicated track number change but without
hearing any interruption to the music.

Some players can handle this and some can't, but unfortunately there
doesn't seem to be any recognised specification or manner of
indicating it, if it's indicated at all. The only way to find out if a
player you're considering purchasing can handle track changes in the
middle of the music would be to take a copy of a suitable work, e.g.
Beethoven's 5th, to the shop and ask for a demonstration.

Rod.
  #17  
Old January 30th 18, 09:19 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Brian Gaff
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Posts: 7,250
Default Freeview swizzling sound tracks

Mostly the smaller ones or the also rans of ch 5 and that kind of channel.
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Unsteadyken" wrote in message
T...
In article ,

says...
Nobody interested in commenting on the original point then.

I've not noted swizzling or other artefacts.
Do you find this on all channels or just some?





  #18  
Old January 30th 18, 09:21 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Brian Gaff
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,250
Default Freeview swizzling sound tracks

Yes I'd be happy with just a set top box as long as it had voiced menus.
I am not sure what happens to the pictures of course but some people seem
to be shooting themselves in the foot by using powerline internet networking
which with some sets seem to upset them rather a lot. Obviously no enough
isolation from mains borne crap.
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Johnny B Good" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 29 Jan 2018 21:56:39 +0000, Unsteadyken wrote:

In article ,

says...
Nobody interested in commenting on the original point then.

I've not noted swizzling or other artefacts.


+1

What audio compression artefacts there may be, are far less annoying to
me than those in the video stream. I guess Brian's condition must leave
him undistracted by the video content, making him acutely aware of any
defects in the quality of the sound.

--
Johnny B Good



  #19  
Old January 30th 18, 09:23 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Brian Gaff
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,250
Default Freeview swizzling sound tracks

Just to clarify, all cds whether home produced or commercial.
I take steps to stop gaps when writing my own of course.
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"NY" wrote in message
o.uk...
"Johnny B Good" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 29 Jan 2018 16:15:10 +0000, Brian Gaff wrote:

====snip====

its all part of the losing the plot world we live in. I have for
example a
cd/dvd player here which sounds excelent but has one flaw any real cd
player should not have, it ducks between tracks, so there you are
listening to the classical cd with track markers that should not be
heard, and hey presto it ducks the sound. I expect more from Panasonic
than this, Software operating cds has been standard for may years, so
why re invent the thing badly. OK so the player can play mp3 cds and
dvds and even ram stick recordings, but all with this strange issue.


Can I assume that you are referring to commercially pressed CDs which,
when played on another CD player, *doesn't* duck the sound at the track
boundaries or are you referring to CD tracks that have been ripped to
recordable media such as CD-R and/or CD+R using CD Burning software?

It's been well over a decade since I last burnt any audio CDs but I do
remember the problem I had creating CDs from ripped tape and vinyl where
the audio CD burning software (Nero5 in my case) kept introducing
unwanted two second gaps between the seperate tracks very much against my
wishes.

Prior to slicing each digitised album or tape into seperate wav files, I
used to simply burn the whole of each album side (whether direct from the
vinyl or a reel to reel tape copy) as a single track which preserved the
original inter-track timings. This, however, meant I couldn't easily drop
onto an individual 'track', hence my discovering the two second of
silence between tracks after going to the trouble of slicing and dicing
my digitisations of each whole side of an album.


Yes. Either you trim the tracks so they begin and end exactly on the
sound, or else you mute the audio (to remove tape hiss or record crackles)
and leave in the gap, dividing it roughly equally between the end of track
n and the beginning of track n+1.



 




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