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OT(ish) - mobile taking over TV frequencies



 
 
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  #1  
Old January 20th 18, 10:15 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
David[_14_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 78
Default OT(ish) - mobile taking over TV frequencies

There is much talk about the shuffling of muxes and fitting of filters to
allow use of some current TV frequencies for mobile phones.

This led me to wonder:

If the signals are being picked up by TV aerials can you use a TV aerial
to boost your mobile phone signal?

If you have to fit a filter to keep mobile signals away from the TV, could
you fit a splitter to pick up the mobile phone signals?

This does, of course, require a mobile phone which will take an external
aerial and I haven't seen one of those for a while. Back in the day a car
kit for a mobile phone included an aerial on the car which connected into
the phone. However that was {cough} years ago.

Cheers



Dave R


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  #2  
Old January 20th 18, 02:46 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Brian-Gaff
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Posts: 576
Default OT(ish) - mobile taking over TV frequencies

Well I'm sure there are repeaters you used to be able to get, but of course
the networks guard their systems well and no doubt if every tom dick or
harry built a two way repeater system the effect would be complete chaos.
Brian

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From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
Remember, if you don't like where I post
or what I say, you don't have to
read my posts! :-)
"David" wrote in message
...
There is much talk about the shuffling of muxes and fitting of filters to
allow use of some current TV frequencies for mobile phones.

This led me to wonder:

If the signals are being picked up by TV aerials can you use a TV aerial
to boost your mobile phone signal?

If you have to fit a filter to keep mobile signals away from the TV, could
you fit a splitter to pick up the mobile phone signals?

This does, of course, require a mobile phone which will take an external
aerial and I haven't seen one of those for a while. Back in the day a car
kit for a mobile phone included an aerial on the car which connected into
the phone. However that was {cough} years ago.

Cheers



Dave R


--
AMD FX-6300 in GA-990X-Gaming SLI-CF running Windows 7 Pro x64

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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  #3  
Old January 20th 18, 03:57 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Bill Wright[_3_]
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Posts: 2,448
Default OT(ish) - mobile taking over TV frequencies

On 20/01/2018 11:15, David wrote:
There is much talk about the shuffling of muxes and fitting of filters to
allow use of some current TV frequencies for mobile phones.

This led me to wonder:

If the signals are being picked up by TV aerials can you use a TV aerial
to boost your mobile phone signal?

If you have to fit a filter to keep mobile signals away from the TV, could
you fit a splitter to pick up the mobile phone signals?

This does, of course, require a mobile phone which will take an external
aerial and I haven't seen one of those for a while. Back in the day a car
kit for a mobile phone included an aerial on the car which connected into
the phone. However that was {cough} years ago.


I don't know whether it would be possible to devise some sort of
close-coupled device that would provide an efficient external aerial
connection for a mobile phone. Assuming that such a device matched 75ohm
feeder it would be feasible I would have thought to align a vertically
polarised wideband TV aerial on the nearest cellphone base and gain an
improvement in reception and transmission. This would be especially the
case if the phone was in a basement or a building with very thick walls,
or conductive walls and roof.

Of course there are lots of devices on the market that do this, but they
use active amplification.

There are of course directional outdoor aerials available for all the
cellphone frequency bands.

Bill
  #4  
Old January 20th 18, 06:01 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Graham.[_12_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 472
Default OT(ish) - mobile taking over TV frequencies

There is much talk about the shuffling of muxes and fitting of filters to
allow use of some current TV frequencies for mobile phones.

This led me to wonder:

If the signals are being picked up by TV aerials can you use a TV aerial
to boost your mobile phone signal?

If you have to fit a filter to keep mobile signals away from the TV, could
you fit a splitter to pick up the mobile phone signals?

This does, of course, require a mobile phone which will take an external
aerial and I haven't seen one of those for a while. Back in the day a car
kit for a mobile phone included an aerial on the car which connected into
the phone. However that was {cough} years ago.

Cheers



Dave R


The answer is an emphatic "yes" provided you can address the lack of
connector of course.
For data there are 3G routers with SMA connectors, I have used them at
work and where the signal is not strong enough, an external aerial can
be connected.
I have no doubt at all that 4G routers that can use the 800Mhz band
are also available.

Incidentally, I wouldn't want to try sharing the same UHF aerial with
TV reception, I would want a separate VP yagi pointing at an 800Mhz
equipped BTS carrying my network.

--

Graham.
%Profound_observation%
  #5  
Old January 21st 18, 07:14 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Brian Gaff
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Posts: 7,250
Default OT(ish) - mobile taking over TV frequencies

Yes exactly what I was getting at in my last comment. The problem has to be
making the issue worse by having local mobile systems piggy backing off a
remote one.

Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

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"Graham." wrote in message
...
There is much talk about the shuffling of muxes and fitting of filters to
allow use of some current TV frequencies for mobile phones.

This led me to wonder:

If the signals are being picked up by TV aerials can you use a TV aerial
to boost your mobile phone signal?

If you have to fit a filter to keep mobile signals away from the TV, could
you fit a splitter to pick up the mobile phone signals?

This does, of course, require a mobile phone which will take an external
aerial and I haven't seen one of those for a while. Back in the day a car
kit for a mobile phone included an aerial on the car which connected into
the phone. However that was {cough} years ago.

Cheers



Dave R


The answer is an emphatic "yes" provided you can address the lack of
connector of course.
For data there are 3G routers with SMA connectors, I have used them at
work and where the signal is not strong enough, an external aerial can
be connected.
I have no doubt at all that 4G routers that can use the 800Mhz band
are also available.

Incidentally, I wouldn't want to try sharing the same UHF aerial with
TV reception, I would want a separate VP yagi pointing at an 800Mhz
equipped BTS carrying my network.

--

Graham.
%Profound_observation%



  #6  
Old January 21st 18, 02:28 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Graham.[_12_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 472
Default OT(ish) - mobile taking over TV frequencies

Yes exactly what I was getting at in my last comment. The problem has to be
making the issue worse by having local mobile systems piggy backing off a
remote one.

Brian


Surprisingly perhaps, the use of these "Femtocells" is actively
encouraged. AIUI they don't piggy back off existing infrastructure,
they use the customers broadband for back haul.

I don't know how they guarantee non-interference on the air interface,
perhaps it's just down to the flea-power.

--

Graham.
%Profound_observation%
  #7  
Old January 21st 18, 03:51 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
David[_14_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 78
Default OT(ish) - mobile taking over TV frequencies

On Sat, 20 Jan 2018 15:46:19 +0000, Brian-Gaff wrote:

Well I'm sure there are repeaters you used to be able to get, but of
course the networks guard their systems well and no doubt if every tom
dick or harry built a two way repeater system the effect would be
complete chaos.
Brian


Some Googling after I posed the question reveals that you can buy
repeaters on line but that turns you into a radio transmitting station on
a reserved frequency and this is apparently (not surprisingly) illegal.

I think Vodafone sell one, but of course they own the frequency.

Some mobile telcos also supply femtocells to run over DSL - again they own
the frequency.

Cheers


Dave R

--
AMD FX-6300 in GA-990X-Gaming SLI-CF running Windows 7 Pro x64

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  #8  
Old January 21st 18, 03:59 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
David[_14_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 78
Default OT(ish) - mobile taking over TV frequencies

On Sat, 20 Jan 2018 16:57:05 +0000, Bill Wright wrote:

On 20/01/2018 11:15, David wrote:
There is much talk about the shuffling of muxes and fitting of filters
to allow use of some current TV frequencies for mobile phones.

This led me to wonder:

If the signals are being picked up by TV aerials can you use a TV
aerial to boost your mobile phone signal?

If you have to fit a filter to keep mobile signals away from the TV,
could you fit a splitter to pick up the mobile phone signals?

This does, of course, require a mobile phone which will take an
external aerial and I haven't seen one of those for a while. Back in
the day a car kit for a mobile phone included an aerial on the car
which connected into the phone. However that was {cough} years ago.


I don't know whether it would be possible to devise some sort of
close-coupled device that would provide an efficient external aerial
connection for a mobile phone. Assuming that such a device matched 75ohm
feeder it would be feasible I would have thought to align a vertically
polarised wideband TV aerial on the nearest cellphone base and gain an
improvement in reception and transmission. This would be especially the
case if the phone was in a basement or a building with very thick walls,
or conductive walls and roof.

Of course there are lots of devices on the market that do this, but they
use active amplification.

There are of course directional outdoor aerials available for all the
cellphone frequency bands.

Bill


There are stick on aerials which claim to boost signal by having a coil
which amplifies the signal from the built in aerial. Placement on the back
of the phone is apparently crucial; you have to be right over the internal
aerial.

There are still aerial connectors inside some phones; we have Samsung
phones and the S4 has an obvious aerial connector (two in fact) under the
back cover.

The S5 has a much smaller connector covered by a blanking plug.

I haven't seen any replacement backs with external aerial connectors so
far, and the descriptions I have read suggest that the aerial connections
are intended for telco testing, not customer use. However there does seem
to be some potential.

There is also talk of a charging cradle which also provides an aerial
boost (presumably you then need a hands free kit).

I was half visualising a product which plugged into an existing aerial
socket and then connected to a charging cradle/aerial booster. Suitable
filters included. From reading other responses this might not be easy and
the cost of an extra aerial and cabling is likely to be more than a
femtocell, I think.

Cheers


Dave R



--
AMD FX-6300 in GA-990X-Gaming SLI-CF running Windows 7 Pro x64

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

  #9  
Old January 21st 18, 05:06 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
tim...[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 619
Default OT(ish) - mobile taking over TV frequencies



"Graham." wrote in message
...
Yes exactly what I was getting at in my last comment. The problem has to
be
making the issue worse by having local mobile systems piggy backing off a
remote one.

Brian


Surprisingly perhaps,


not surprising at all as they pass some of the costs of providing network
equipment to the user

you don't (usually) get one installed in your house for free

the use of these "Femtocells" is actively
encouraged. AIUI they don't piggy back off existing infrastructure,
they use the customers broadband for back haul.

I don't know how they guarantee non-interference on the air interface,
perhaps it's just down to the flea-power.


I haven't the faintest idea what you mean by that

tim



  #10  
Old January 21st 18, 05:09 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,245
Default OT(ish) - mobile taking over TV frequencies

On 21 Jan 2018 16:59:18 GMT, David wrote:


There are stick on aerials which claim to boost signal by having a coil
which amplifies the signal from the built in aerial. Placement on the back
of the phone is apparently crucial; you have to be right over the internal
aerial.

There are still aerial connectors inside some phones; we have Samsung
phones and the S4 has an obvious aerial connector (two in fact) under the
back cover.

The S5 has a much smaller connector covered by a blanking plug.

I haven't seen any replacement backs with external aerial connectors so
far, and the descriptions I have read suggest that the aerial connections
are intended for telco testing, not customer use. However there does seem
to be some potential.

There is also talk of a charging cradle which also provides an aerial
boost (presumably you then need a hands free kit).

I was half visualising a product which plugged into an existing aerial
socket and then connected to a charging cradle/aerial booster. Suitable
filters included. From reading other responses this might not be easy and
the cost of an extra aerial and cabling is likely to be more than a
femtocell, I think.

Cheers


My first Motorola GSM phone had a car mounting cradle that included an
aerial coupling for a coax cable to an external roof aerial. There was
no physical contact - it worked by either capacitive or inductive
coupling inside the plastic moulding. As there was no GSM signal at my
home in those early days I bought a second car mount to use with a 6dB
colinear on a window sill.
 




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