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OT(ish) - mobile taking over TV frequencies



 
 
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  #11  
Old January 21st 18, 06:15 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
[email protected]
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Default OT(ish) - mobile taking over TV frequencies

On 21 Jan 2018 16:51:28 GMT, David wrote:

On Sat, 20 Jan 2018 15:46:19 +0000, Brian-Gaff wrote:

Well I'm sure there are repeaters you used to be able to get, but of
course the networks guard their systems well and no doubt if every tom
dick or harry built a two way repeater system the effect would be
complete chaos.
Brian


Some Googling after I posed the question reveals that you can buy
repeaters on line but that turns you into a radio transmitting station on
a reserved frequency and this is apparently (not surprisingly) illegal.

I think Vodafone sell one, but of course they own the frequency.

Some mobile telcos also supply femtocells to run over DSL - again they own
the frequency.

Cheers


https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/asse...ement-2017.pdf
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  #12  
Old January 21st 18, 11:08 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
David[_14_]
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Default OT(ish) - mobile taking over TV frequencies

On Sun, 21 Jan 2018 18:15:55 +0000, nemo wrote:

On 21 Jan 2018 16:51:28 GMT, David wrote:

On Sat, 20 Jan 2018 15:46:19 +0000, Brian-Gaff wrote:

Well I'm sure there are repeaters you used to be able to get, but of
course the networks guard their systems well and no doubt if every tom
dick or harry built a two way repeater system the effect would be
complete chaos.
Brian


Some Googling after I posed the question reveals that you can buy
repeaters on line but that turns you into a radio transmitting station
on a reserved frequency and this is apparently (not surprisingly)
illegal.

I think Vodafone sell one, but of course they own the frequency.

Some mobile telcos also supply femtocells to run over DSL - again they
own the frequency.

Cheers


https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/asse...254/Repeaters-

Statement-2017.pdf

Thanks - interesting reading.

"Mobile phone repeaters amplify signals between a mobile phone and a
network operator’s base station and can enhance coverage in situations
where the signal is weak. Their use by consumers is currently unlawful, as
the types of wideband repeaters that we come across today can cause undue
interference or other adverse effects to mobile services for other
consumers. The only exception is if the repeaters are supplied and
operated under the control of a mobile network operator. "


I wonder how long it will take to get approved systems to market?

Presumably the vendors of the current illegal systems will have an
incentive.


Cheers



Dave R
--
AMD FX-6300 in GA-990X-Gaming SLI-CF running Windows 7 Pro x64

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  #13  
Old January 22nd 18, 08:31 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Roderick Stewart[_3_]
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Default OT(ish) - mobile taking over TV frequencies

On 21 Jan 2018 23:08:05 GMT, David wrote:

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/asse...254/Repeaters-

Statement-2017.pdf

Thanks - interesting reading.

"Mobile phone repeaters amplify signals between a mobile phone and a
network operatorís base station and can enhance coverage in situations
where the signal is weak. Their use by consumers is currently unlawful, as
the types of wideband repeaters that we come across today can cause undue
interference or other adverse effects to mobile services for other
consumers. The only exception is if the repeaters are supplied and
operated under the control of a mobile network operator. "


I wonder how long it will take to get approved systems to market?


Probably forever, the same as it was with video senders and foreign
dial-up modems. Similarly, there will be no reports of any harm
resulting from their use, or anybody being prosecuted for using one.

Presumably the vendors of the current illegal systems will have an
incentive.


None at all, unless they can be prosecuted for selling the systems,
which as things stand is unlikely. As far as I know, it's only illegal
to *use* an unauthorised transmitter, not to sell, make or own one.
Creating even more possession laws, as for things like hard drugs,
firearms, stolen property etc, would open another can of worms that I
doubt the government would want to bother with, even if they
understood it properly. The number of these repeater systems in use
must be quite small, and until some identifiable harm results from one
of them I don't think anybody will care.

Rod.
  #14  
Old January 22nd 18, 08:40 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Mark Carver[_2_]
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Posts: 439
Default OT(ish) - mobile taking over TV frequencies

On 21/01/2018 23:08, David wrote:

I wonder how long it will take to get approved systems to market?


The mobile companies have largely abandoned the idea of 'femto cells'
(such as Voda's SureSignal) for domestic use. What works far better
is WiFi calling, where (on suitably equipped phones) the phone
uses a WiFi connection for 'POTS' and SMS.

And before anyone points out that's no good for 'dumb phones',
well it's not, but nor are the 'femtocell' solutions, because
they ONLY provide a 3G signal (and not 2 or 4G)


--
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  #15  
Old January 22nd 18, 09:37 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
charles[_2_]
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Default OT(ish) - mobile taking over TV frequencies

In article ,
Roderick Stewart wrote:
On 21 Jan 2018 23:08:05 GMT, David wrote:


https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/asse...254/Repeaters-

Statement-2017.pdf

Thanks - interesting reading.

"Mobile phone repeaters amplify signals between a mobile phone and a
network operatorís base station and can enhance coverage in situations
where the signal is weak. Their use by consumers is currently unlawful, as
the types of wideband repeaters that we come across today can cause undue
interference or other adverse effects to mobile services for other
consumers. The only exception is if the repeaters are supplied and
operated under the control of a mobile network operator. "


I wonder how long it will take to get approved systems to market?


Probably forever, the same as it was with video senders and foreign
dial-up modems. Similarly, there will be no reports of any harm
resulting from their use, or anybody being prosecuted for using one.


Presumably the vendors of the current illegal systems will have an
incentive.


None at all, unless they can be prosecuted for selling the systems,
which as things stand is unlikely. As far as I know, it's only illegal
to *use* an unauthorised transmitter, not to sell,


It has been classified as "Conspiracy to commit a crime". Vendors of
video-senders in the 1980/90s were successsfully prosecuted by the Radio
Investigation Service

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
  #16  
Old January 22nd 18, 11:32 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
R. Mark Clayton[_2_]
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Posts: 649
Default OT(ish) - mobile taking over TV frequencies

On Saturday, 20 January 2018 15:46:18 UTC, Brian Gaff wrote:
Well I'm sure there are repeaters you used to be able to get, but of course
the networks guard their systems well and no doubt if every tom dick or
harry built a two way repeater system the effect would be complete chaos.
Brian

--
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Remember, if you don't like where I post
or what I say, you don't have to
read my posts! :-)
"David" wrote in message
...
There is much talk about the shuffling of muxes and fitting of filters to
allow use of some current TV frequencies for mobile phones.

This led me to wonder:

If the signals are being picked up by TV aerials can you use a TV aerial
to boost your mobile phone signal?

If you have to fit a filter to keep mobile signals away from the TV, could
you fit a splitter to pick up the mobile phone signals?

This does, of course, require a mobile phone which will take an external
aerial and I haven't seen one of those for a while. Back in the day a car
kit for a mobile phone included an aerial on the car which connected into
the phone. However that was {cough} years ago.


Just an aerial amp will do, although the very latest ones may have a notch filter to keep out the mobile phone signals you are trying to improve.

Better would just be Yagi ---- CT100 cable ---- small vertical stub inside house.

Your problem however is the uplink. The mobile phone base station as excellent well sited aerials and usually about 25W Tx power, whereas your mobile phone has an internal aerial and max 1W power, much of which is absorbed by your head.

Interestingly some cars have what is effectively a car phone (6W) and an aerial on the roof. The phone connects to this in remote SIM mode and the car's transceiver and aerial is used instead of the phones. Some even have a SIM tray for a separate connection.


Cheers



Dave R

  #17  
Old January 22nd 18, 11:36 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
R. Mark Clayton[_2_]
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Posts: 649
Default OT(ish) - mobile taking over TV frequencies

On Monday, 22 January 2018 08:40:12 UTC, Mark Carver wrote:
On 21/01/2018 23:08, David wrote:

I wonder how long it will take to get approved systems to market?


The mobile companies have largely abandoned the idea of 'femto cells'
(such as Voda's SureSignal) for domestic use. What works far better
is WiFi calling, where (on suitably equipped phones) the phone
uses a WiFi connection for 'POTS' and SMS.

And before anyone points out that's no good for 'dumb phones',
well it's not, but nor are the 'femtocell' solutions, because
they ONLY provide a 3G signal (and not 2 or 4G)


So? If 3G works, you don't need 2G, unless your phone is very dumb / over ten years' old. To phone on 4G you need 4G calling, and the main benefit is a big (5X) increase in data speeds to 70Mbps, but if you are connected to Wi-Fi anyway why would that matter?




--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.


  #18  
Old January 22nd 18, 12:30 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Mark Carver[_2_]
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Posts: 439
Default OT(ish) - mobile taking over TV frequencies

On 22/01/2018 11:36, R. Mark Clayton wrote:
On Monday, 22 January 2018 08:40:12 UTC, Mark Carver wrote:


The mobile companies have largely abandoned the idea of 'femto cells'
(such as Voda's SureSignal) for domestic use. What works far better
is WiFi calling, where (on suitably equipped phones) the phone
uses a WiFi connection for 'POTS' and SMS.

And before anyone points out that's no good for 'dumb phones',
well it's not, but nor are the 'femtocell' solutions, because
they ONLY provide a 3G signal (and not 2 or 4G)


So? If 3G works, you don't need 2G, unless your phone is very dumb / over ten years' old.


I bought my mother a Doro last year, that's only 2G.

To phone on 4G you need 4G calling, and the main benefit is a big (5X) increase in data speeds to 70Mbps, but if you are connected to Wi-Fi anyway why would that matter?


We're talking about the ability to make and receive call and SMS over
WiFi, obviously data isn't an issue (except some phones when in standby,
are only sniffing the network (and not WiFi) for data)


--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.
  #19  
Old January 22nd 18, 08:06 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
R. Mark Clayton[_2_]
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Posts: 649
Default OT(ish) - mobile taking over TV frequencies

On Monday, 22 January 2018 12:30:27 UTC, Mark Carver wrote:
On 22/01/2018 11:36, R. Mark Clayton wrote:
On Monday, 22 January 2018 08:40:12 UTC, Mark Carver wrote:


The mobile companies have largely abandoned the idea of 'femto cells'
(such as Voda's SureSignal) for domestic use. What works far better
is WiFi calling, where (on suitably equipped phones) the phone
uses a WiFi connection for 'POTS' and SMS.

And before anyone points out that's no good for 'dumb phones',
well it's not, but nor are the 'femtocell' solutions, because
they ONLY provide a 3G signal (and not 2 or 4G)


So? If 3G works, you don't need 2G, unless your phone is very dumb / over ten years' old.


I bought my mother a Doro last year, that's only 2G.


A very dumb phone. OTOH if it has Wi-Fi, there is no reason why it could not do Wi-Fi calling.

BTW it won't work on Three, or rather they will soon cut it off.


To phone on 4G you need 4G calling, and the main benefit is a big (5X) increase in data speeds to 70Mbps, but if you are connected to Wi-Fi anyway why would that matter?


We're talking about the ability to make and receive call and SMS over
WiFi, obviously data isn't an issue (except some phones when in standby,
are only sniffing the network (and not WiFi) for data)


--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.


  #20  
Old January 22nd 18, 09:31 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Bill Wright[_3_]
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Posts: 2,448
Default OT(ish) - mobile taking over TV frequencies

On 22/01/2018 20:06, R. Mark Clayton wrote:

I bought my mother a Doro last year, that's only 2G.



A phone ideally suited to the application.

Bill
 




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