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BBC Scotland - scope for confusion?



 
 
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  #21  
Old December 11th 17, 02:41 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Jim Lesurf[_2_]
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Posts: 4,326
Default BBC Scotland - scope for confusion?

In article , The Other Mike
wrote:
On Mon, 11 Dec 2017 09:47:37 +0000 (GMT), Jim Lesurf
wrote:


In article , The Other Mike
wrote:
On Sun, 03 Dec 2017 13:41:49 +0000 (GMT), Jim Lesurf
wrote:


If they *do* dump BBC 4 from 'Freeview' then I suspect they may then
try to say, "you can get it via the internet"... which also may not
go down well in some of the remoter places in Scotland.


Some of the 'remoter places in Scotland' are recipients of highly
subsidised ultrafast broadband infrastructure provision.


https://www.mynewsdesk.com/uk/openre...nities-2270120


And some are not. Also, having it 'available' doesn't mean it won't
cost the user.


The fibre infrastructure back to the exchange and the new cabinets are
being provided for FREE. The provision of the broadband service by any
one of a multitude of suppliers is at the EXACT same cost as it is at
any address anywhere in the UK.


Erm... 3/10 for comprehension. :-)

It isn't "FREE". We all pay for it via taxes. And the "FREE" (sic) bit only
applies to infrastructure, not the ongoing costs for *using* it. The
concept that watching HD TV via the net *costs more* than over-air, and that
for some that would be a problem seems also to have passed you by.


Meanwhile those in England, millions of them dispersed across urban and
rural often see this message on the openreach fibre checker (and have
done for years)

'We are exploring solutions'


[snip]

We are *PAYING* (via taxes) - even those of us in Scotland who *already*
had broadband. If you envy that, campaign to get your own similar
arrangement to pay via *your* taxes set up. Although that - as here -
won't necessarily cover everyone There are still places in
Scotland that lack decent broadband infrastructure.

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

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  #22  
Old December 11th 17, 03:07 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Java Jive[_2_]
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Posts: 1,774
Default BBC Scotland - scope for confusion?

On 11/12/2017 13:23, S Viemeister wrote:
Several of the people along the road from us (western side of the Kyle
of Tongue), have gone to satellite - working from home can be next to
impossible without a decent internet connection.


Yes, some have around here as well. The trouble with satellite, and
also 4G which many of us can get, is that pro rata - £ per Mbps speed
per GB download limit - it's by far and away the most expensive way to
get broadband. If you follow the link to my work which I gave up
thread, and read through the submission I made on behalf of the local
community, you'll find a section comparing pro rata the various possible
technologies. Basically anything based on a landline, ADSL or FTTC, is
the best value for money, anything else is prohibitively expensive or
almost so.
  #23  
Old December 11th 17, 05:02 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Bill Wright[_3_]
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Posts: 2,448
Default BBC Scotland - scope for confusion?

On 11/12/2017 12:55, Jim Lesurf wrote:
In article , Bill Wright
wrote:
https://www.mynewsdesk.com/uk/openre...nities-2270120

We found this year that most of the remote campsites on the islands had
very fast broadband.


That makes economic sense for site owners who want to attract paying
vistors from elsewhere who take access for granted. If a given site
*didn't* offer this then they might lose customers to one that does.


The point is though that fast internet is available in the area.
Actually I don't think it's a massive sales point, although it must help.

Bill
  #24  
Old December 11th 17, 05:18 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Bill Wright[_3_]
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Posts: 2,448
Default BBC Scotland - scope for confusion?

On 11/12/2017 15:41, Jim Lesurf wrote:

It isn't "FREE". We all pay for it via taxes.


Speaking generally rather than about the subject under discussion, a
test of whether something can be thought of as 'free' is how willing
people are to accept it. Even though taxpayers have paid for something,
when it's offered to the public they will accept it far more readily
when there's no charge than if they have to pay for it directly. To them
it is de facto free. After all, if you can get something without any
extra payment over and above your taxes, it's free from your point of
view. And most people do think almost exclusively in terms of their own
point of view.

This is why the GPs' surgeries and A & E are flooded with people who
just need to use a bit of common sense and maybe buy something from the
chemists'.

The problem is that if they were to charge a small fee for a GP visit
they'd have to let off the poor from paying, and unfortunately it's the
poor who are most likely to milk the system due to their generally low
intelligence coupled with a degree of low animal cunning, plus a lack of
moral fibre.

Bill
  #25  
Old December 11th 17, 08:53 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Vir Campestris
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Posts: 439
Default BBC Scotland - scope for confusion?

On 11/12/2017 15:26, The Other Mike wrote:
Meanwhile those in England, millions of them dispersed across urban and rural
often see this message on the openreach fibre checker (and have done for years)

'We are exploring solutions'


Sounds familiar.

Nothing happened until someone started exploring alternative solutions.
We'd got to the stage of collecting money, and placing an order with BT
(the only supplier )for a fibre to a nearby point for our wireless
system. Suddenly by sheer coincidence BT were able to install our system
that they had been slipping year on year.

Andy
  #26  
Old December 12th 17, 09:14 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Jim Lesurf[_2_]
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Posts: 4,326
Default BBC Scotland - scope for confusion?

In article , Bill Wright
wrote:
On 11/12/2017 12:55, Jim Lesurf wrote:
In article , Bill Wright
wrote:
https://www.mynewsdesk.com/uk/openre...nities-2270120

We found this year that most of the remote campsites on the islands
had very fast broadband.


That makes economic sense for site owners who want to attract paying
vistors from elsewhere who take access for granted. If a given site
*didn't* offer this then they might lose customers to one that does.


The point is though that fast internet is available in the area.
Actually I don't think it's a massive sales point, although it must help.


Fair enough. However my own main point has been that getting HD TV via
broadband involves much higher running costs that watching DVB-T/T2. And
regardless of the infrastructure being installed, that remains the case.
Hence it simply isn't a suitable *alternative* for *everyone*. Even for
those whose taxes may have subsidised the broadband they'd find too costly
to use.

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

  #27  
Old December 12th 17, 09:16 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Jim Lesurf[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,326
Default BBC Scotland - scope for confusion?

In article , Bill Wright
wrote:

This is why the GPs' surgeries and A & E are flooded with people who
just need to use a bit of common sense and maybe buy something from the
chemists'.


Particularly when the medication involved may be cheaper over the counter
than the price paid by the NHS. Yes, that happens. Although, as with
earlier discussions, this then would depend on if the patient can afford
it, anyway.

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

  #28  
Old December 12th 17, 06:36 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Bill Wright[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,448
Default BBC Scotland - scope for confusion?

On 12/12/2017 10:14, Jim Lesurf wrote:

The point is though that fast internet is available in the area.
Actually I don't think it's a massive sales point, although it must help.


Fair enough. However my own main point has been that getting HD TV via
broadband involves much higher running costs that watching DVB-T/T2. And
regardless of the infrastructure being installed, that remains the case.
Hence it simply isn't a suitable *alternative* for *everyone*. Even for
those whose taxes may have subsidised the broadband they'd find too costly
to use.

Jim


Pricing will have to change, and that will depend on supply/demand.

Bill
  #29  
Old December 12th 17, 06:37 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Bill Wright[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,448
Default BBC Scotland - scope for confusion?

On 12/12/2017 10:16, Jim Lesurf wrote:
In article , Bill Wright
wrote:

This is why the GPs' surgeries and A & E are flooded with people who
just need to use a bit of common sense and maybe buy something from the
chemists'.


Particularly when the medication involved may be cheaper over the counter
than the price paid by the NHS. Yes, that happens. Although, as with
earlier discussions, this then would depend on if the patient can afford
it, anyway.

Jim

That happens a lot due largely to dispensing fees pain by the NHS.

Bill
  #30  
Old December 13th 17, 08:49 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Jim Lesurf[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,326
Default BBC Scotland - scope for confusion?

In article , Bill Wright
wrote:

Pricing will have to change, and that will depend on supply/demand.


The snag being that openreach are almost a monopoly supplier in the
relevant areas for the required terrestrial broadband network.

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

 




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