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uk.tech.digital-tv (Digital TV - General) (uk.tech.digital-tv) Discussion of all matters technical in origin related to the reception of digital television transmissions, be they via satellite, terrestrial or cable. Advertising is forbidden, with no exceptions.

MSF radio clocks.



 
 
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  #21  
Old October 30th 17, 05:42 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Ian Field
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 170
Default MSF radio clocks.



"PeterC" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 29 Oct 2017 22:03:10 -0000, Ian Field wrote:

The least reliable MSF clock did what it was supposed to when the clocks
went back - so reception conditions must be good ATM.

Retuned the PVR - now have all the channels where they should be.


One MSF clock worked OK on the signal but every so often went wrong by,
usually, a small amount. With a clock showing a credible but wron time
it's
easy to miss a bus.


The least reliable Lidl clock often gets the hour wrong.

The Lidl projection alarm clock in the bedroom had a failed projection
laser, when I looked for the time to set the non MSF clock - it had
completely gone the way of the dodo.

radio controlled clocks aren't infallible - extra clocks for "redundant
system" is not a bad idea.

Ads
  #22  
Old October 30th 17, 06:37 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Mark Carver
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,633
Default MSF radio clocks.

On 30/10/2017 17:06, Huge wrote:
On 2017-10-30, Mark Carver wrote:
On 30/10/2017 15:51, Jeff Gaines wrote:
On 30/10/2017 in message
Peter Duncanson wrote:

The clock in my car is updated using the time from the radio using RDS

The clock in my car is updated by me pressing/twiddling a knob! Can't
believe it doesn't update itself form DAB or GPS.


My car radio 'keeps time' using GPS, but I still have to set the time
zone, and BST/GMT etc.


That's because that information is not available from GPS.


Location (i.e. time zone) should be !!


--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.
  #23  
Old October 30th 17, 06:43 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Johnny B Good[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 513
Default MSF radio clocks.

On Mon, 30 Oct 2017 06:45:01 +0000, Roderick Stewart wrote:

On Sun, 29 Oct 2017 22:03:10 -0000, "Ian Field"
wrote:

The least reliable MSF clock did what it was supposed to when the clocks
went back - so reception conditions must be good ATM.


My only MSF clock behaved perfectly too, but the rest of my various
timepieces are a bit of a mixed bag.

The Aldi weather station, presumably DCF, still shows an hour ahead, so
maybe DST has to be switched manually. I'll deal with that one later
when I can find the instructiuons.


My one and only radio controlled timepiece is an IT Works weather
station which I keep a little too close to an HD monitor for it to
receive the signal reliably whilst the monitor is powered up. On the
Sunday morning it was still showing 2:30 after the computer had undone
the Bull**** Time adjustment. However, later on that day, I noticed it
had finally got the message to remove the DST setting and was
synchronised to the PC clock again. I used to think it was the RFI from
the PC that was blanking out the MSF / DCF signals but since I leave that
running 24/7, I have to conclude that the real culprit for the flaky
radio synchronisation behaviour must be the monitor.


The TV receivers all picked up the right time, but the Roberts internet
radio didn't. If it hasn't been used for a while, it'll correct a small
discrepancy when first switched on, so clearly it's capable of checking
the time (from an ntp server?) but has to be told manually whether DST
is active or not.

The mobile phone picked up the right time, but the clock in the landline
phone is completely manual, just like an ordinary clock that's just a
clock and nothing but a clock.

My spare phone, not a smartphone, just an old fashioned dumbphone with a
physical keypad and a green screen, has a setting for automatic time
setting, but it seems to ignore it, so I have to set it manually.


I personally don't have any sort of phobile moan. The Panasonic DECT
phone totally ignores the time data sent from the exchange as part of
every CLI data burst so needs to set manually, unlike a cheap 'n'
cheerful Binatone DECT setup of over 15 years ago which could (and did)
automatically set its clock to the right time which it then maintained
from the time data bursts of each successive incoming call. Progress eh?


The clock in the car can only be set forwards, so needed 23 presses of
the button for the hours, and a couple more for the minutes. My guess is
that these may be deliberately designed to run a little slow to make
minor corrections easier, because I normally have to advance the minutes
several times during the 6 months between DST changes.


The clock in the XYL's Vauxhall Ashtray... Astra seems to be as accurate
as my 13 year old Casio DB60 wris****ch (within a second or three per
year). In both cases, I realise this is purely down to "Dumb Luck"(tm).
The bedside alarm clock (a Casio quartz regulated analogue mechanism with
a trembler bell, not a high pitched tone sounder) is almost as accurate,
certainly to within less than half a minute per year.


The mains driven digital alarm clock (bought in 1982 and still working
perfectly) only needed the hours changing. As long as power is not
interrupted the minutes are always exact.


Long term, that's true (assuming a continuous uninterrupted mains
supply) but it will vary from exact by up to a couple of minutes either
way throughout each 24 hour period. I think the National Grid operators
aim to generate exactly 4,320,000 cycles per 24 hours, midnight to
midnight, adjusting the next day's run to compensate for any residual
discrepancies from that target so as to have generated exactly 1,576.8
million cycles over a 365 day year (give or take 1 or 3 thousand cycles
or so which are in any case made up by the next day's adjustment routine).

Quite possibly, there may still be a few 1950s electric timepieces that
have been set only once some 60 odd years ago, still keeping time to
within +/- a couple of minutes of the correct time.


My main computer, booted first into Linux Mint, picked up the right
time, then when rebooted into Windows went back another hour. To fix
this I go into settings and switch "Set time automatically" to off, and
then on again, so it looks as though Windows doesn't check the time very
often, certainly not on bootup, and needs to be reminded.


My WinXP VM must have dropped the hour as per normal since it's now
showing the same time as the host, Linux Mint 17.1. Mind you, neither
have been rebooted in several days so it's not quite the same scenario.


Then there's a Sony digital camera that has wi-fi but needs its clock
setting manually, and apparently can only manage 12 hour AM/PM.


The less said about Sony crap, the better IMO. :-)


There's bound to be something I've forgotten, but I expect I'll round
them all up eventually. Give me about 6 months...


I know what you mean. However, I (or rather the XYL) remembered about
the need to adjust the Potterton2000 CH/HW controller's clock *this time*
which I promptly attended to. It's one of those things that are so easily
overlooked until you finally realise that the radiators have started
warming up an hour sooner or later than normal. It can take several days
for the penny to drop on this one.

--
Johnny B Good
  #24  
Old October 30th 17, 07:05 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Indy Jess John
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,307
Default MSF radio clocks.

On 30/10/2017 15:41, Peter Duncanson wrote:

The clock in my car is updated using the time from the radio using RDS
(Radio Data System).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_Data_System

The clock in my car is right twice a day, every day ;-)

Jim

  #25  
Old October 30th 17, 07:12 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Woody[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,865
Default MSF radio clocks.


"Johnny B Good" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 30 Oct 2017 06:45:01 +0000, Roderick Stewart wrote:

On Sun, 29 Oct 2017 22:03:10 -0000, "Ian Field"
wrote:

The least reliable MSF clock did what it was supposed to when the
clocks
went back - so reception conditions must be good ATM.


My only MSF clock behaved perfectly too, but the rest of my various
timepieces are a bit of a mixed bag.

The Aldi weather station, presumably DCF, still shows an hour
ahead, so
maybe DST has to be switched manually. I'll deal with that one
later
when I can find the instructiuons.


My one and only radio controlled timepiece is an IT Works weather
station which I keep a little too close to an HD monitor for it to
receive the signal reliably whilst the monitor is powered up. On the
Sunday morning it was still showing 2:30 after the computer had
undone
the Bull**** Time adjustment. However, later on that day, I noticed
it
had finally got the message to remove the DST setting and was
synchronised to the PC clock again. I used to think it was the RFI
from
the PC that was blanking out the MSF / DCF signals but since I leave
that
running 24/7, I have to conclude that the real culprit for the flaky
radio synchronisation behaviour must be the monitor.


The TV receivers all picked up the right time, but the Roberts
internet
radio didn't. If it hasn't been used for a while, it'll correct a
small
discrepancy when first switched on, so clearly it's capable of
checking
the time (from an ntp server?) but has to be told manually whether
DST
is active or not.

The mobile phone picked up the right time, but the clock in the
landline
phone is completely manual, just like an ordinary clock that's just
a
clock and nothing but a clock.

My spare phone, not a smartphone, just an old fashioned dumbphone
with a
physical keypad and a green screen, has a setting for automatic
time
setting, but it seems to ignore it, so I have to set it manually.


I personally don't have any sort of phobile moan. The Panasonic DECT
phone totally ignores the time data sent from the exchange as part
of
every CLI data burst so needs to set manually, unlike a cheap 'n'
cheerful Binatone DECT setup of over 15 years ago which could (and
did)
automatically set its clock to the right time which it then
maintained
from the time data bursts of each successive incoming call. Progress
eh?


The clock in the car can only be set forwards, so needed 23 presses
of
the button for the hours, and a couple more for the minutes. My
guess is
that these may be deliberately designed to run a little slow to
make
minor corrections easier, because I normally have to advance the
minutes
several times during the 6 months between DST changes.


The clock in the XYL's Vauxhall Ashtray... Astra seems to be as
accurate
as my 13 year old Casio DB60 wris****ch (within a second or three
per
year). In both cases, I realise this is purely down to "Dumb
Luck"(tm).
The bedside alarm clock (a Casio quartz regulated analogue mechanism
with
a trembler bell, not a high pitched tone sounder) is almost as
accurate,
certainly to within less than half a minute per year.


The mains driven digital alarm clock (bought in 1982 and still
working
perfectly) only needed the hours changing. As long as power is not
interrupted the minutes are always exact.


Long term, that's true (assuming a continuous uninterrupted mains
supply) but it will vary from exact by up to a couple of minutes
either
way throughout each 24 hour period. I think the National Grid
operators
aim to generate exactly 4,320,000 cycles per 24 hours, midnight to
midnight, adjusting the next day's run to compensate for any
residual
discrepancies from that target so as to have generated exactly
1,576.8
million cycles over a 365 day year (give or take 1 or 3 thousand
cycles
or so which are in any case made up by the next day's adjustment
routine).

Quite possibly, there may still be a few 1950s electric timepieces
that
have been set only once some 60 odd years ago, still keeping time to
within +/- a couple of minutes of the correct time.


My main computer, booted first into Linux Mint, picked up the right
time, then when rebooted into Windows went back another hour. To
fix
this I go into settings and switch "Set time automatically" to off,
and
then on again, so it looks as though Windows doesn't check the time
very
often, certainly not on bootup, and needs to be reminded.


My WinXP VM must have dropped the hour as per normal since it's now
showing the same time as the host, Linux Mint 17.1. Mind you,
neither
have been rebooted in several days so it's not quite the same
scenario.


Then there's a Sony digital camera that has wi-fi but needs its
clock
setting manually, and apparently can only manage 12 hour AM/PM.


The less said about Sony crap, the better IMO. :-)


There's bound to be something I've forgotten, but I expect I'll
round
them all up eventually. Give me about 6 months...


I know what you mean. However, I (or rather the XYL) remembered
about
the need to adjust the Potterton2000 CH/HW controller's clock *this
time*
which I promptly attended to. It's one of those things that are so
easily
overlooked until you finally realise that the radiators have started
warming up an hour sooner or later than normal. It can take several
days
for the penny to drop on this one.



If the Astra has a CD30 CD/radio or similar that uses the dash
display, then the time comes from RDS. I had a couple of Cavaliers and
a couple of Astras dataing back to the early 90's and they all did it,
so the clock was always right - unless you changed the radio for one
that would not drive the dashboard display, then you had to set the
time manually.


--
Woody

harrogate3 at ntlworld dot com


  #26  
Old October 30th 17, 07:16 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Andy Burns[_12_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 573
Default MSF radio clocks.

Woody wrote:

If the Astra has a CD30 CD/radio or similar that uses the dash
display, then the time comes from RDS.


My previous Honda got the RDS time (and traffic alerts) and
automatically changed between GMT/BST.

Current Audi has DAB radio, but doesn't bother changing the clock,
progress? bah!
  #27  
Old October 30th 17, 07:22 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Bill Wright[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,448
Default MSF radio clocks.

On 30/10/2017 20:05, Indy Jess John wrote:

The clock in my car is right twice a day, every day¬* ;-)


When I'm cycling into the village I rely on the church clock. I've
noticed that if I go very fast it appears to run backwards. I'm not sure
whether to blame Doppler or Einstein.

Bill

  #28  
Old October 30th 17, 08:07 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Vir Campestris
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 439
Default MSF radio clocks.

On 30/10/2017 08:29, Indy Jess John wrote:
I have a spare PC that normally runs Linux but has the option of booting
into XP.¬* When I checked things on Sunday morning it was 3 minutes slow,
so it looks as though this system which I never turn off doesn't
routinely check the internet time but does know the dates to change the
hour.

I closed down Linux and booted XP and it was an hour slow, so I looked
at the time setting perameters and it showed it should have checked with
the internet time server but there was a communications fault.¬* I
clicked the "Try Again" option and it again failed to correct the time,
and it told me the next automatic check would be a week in the future.
So it looks like XP at least (but probably other versions of Windows
too, though Win7 just states that it happens automatically without
explaining how) checks the time weekly on a Sunday.¬* I reset the XP
clock manually, then booted back into Linux which then showed the right
time rather than 3 minutes out. So it looks as though that version of
Linux checks the time on boot.


It's not uncommon for _both_ operating systems on a dual-boot system to
update the time by an hour... though of course these days you'd think
they'd look on the 'net.

Andy
  #29  
Old October 30th 17, 08:32 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Ian Field
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 170
Default MSF radio clocks.



"Bill Wright" wrote in message
news
On 30/10/2017 20:05, Indy Jess John wrote:

The clock in my car is right twice a day, every day ;-)


When I'm cycling into the village I rely on the church clock. I've noticed
that if I go very fast it appears to run backwards. I'm not sure whether
to blame Doppler or Einstein.


It was that tab of LSD.

  #30  
Old October 30th 17, 09:11 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Woody[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,865
Default MSF radio clocks.


"Andy Burns" wrote in message
...
Woody wrote:

If the Astra has a CD30 CD/radio or similar that uses the dash
display, then the time comes from RDS.


My previous Honda got the RDS time (and traffic alerts) and
automatically changed between GMT/BST.

Current Audi has DAB radio, but doesn't bother changing the clock,
progress? bah!


But as yours is likely the same as my Passat at least you do have a
BST (DST as they call it) option on the MFD that allows you to change
the hour with one button press. As for the actual time, my clock keeps
near perfect sync - a second or so a month.


--
Woody

harrogate3 at ntlworld dot com


 




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