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4k TV on Freesat or Freeview?



 
 
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  #111  
Old August 17th 15, 02:03 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Roderick Stewart[_3_]
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Posts: 2,246
Default 4k TV on Freesat or Freeview?

On Mon, 17 Aug 2015 12:03:21 +0100, Jim Lesurf
wrote:

The future of broadcasting, all broadcasting, is the internet,


Yes, that seems quite likely. However...

and the BBC is becoming an ever more insignificant part of it.


Really? I'd be interested in seeing detailed evidence for that belief.


I probably don't have what you'd count as "detailed evidence" in the
form of graphs and charts, as I haven't carried out an actual survey
on this, but even the most casual general observation of the way
ordinary people are spending their time in front of screens and in the
presence of loudspeakers will make it clear that much of what they are
watching and listening to now has nothing to do with the BBC.

I remember when the BBC was the only source of *any* broadcasting in
this country. Then we acquired a second television channel, then a
third and a fourth, and somewhere during that time a number of
independent radio stations appeared. Then somebody invented the
internet, and that technology and its availability were gradually
improved until it too could be used for entertainment purposes. The
result is that once the BBC was the only broadcast entertainment
service there was, but now it's one amongst thousands of others. I
remember all this because I was there - it has all happened within my
lifetime and shows no sign of stopping. This may not count as detailed
evidence, but I think it shows a dramatic change in the significance
of the BBC amongst all the other related services that are available
to us now, those other services having climbed to their present
ubiquitous status from absolute nonexistance.

Rod.
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  #112  
Old August 17th 15, 02:09 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Roderick Stewart[_3_]
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Posts: 2,246
Default 4k TV on Freesat or Freeview?

On Mon, 17 Aug 2015 12:56:23 +0200, Martin wrote:

Youre quite free to ditch your tv licence and wonder off to tax free
Amazon right now if you want. Just make sure you cut off your tv and
satellite co-ax cables so you can show the inspector if they can be
bothered to come round, so as to prove it is impossible for you to
receive television programmes.

Given that TV licence inspectors have no right of entry to your house,
.
indeed they haven't, but I understsnd that HMRC can make a forced entry if
they believe there to be contraband on the premises. The two have been
know to work together.


If they broke into my house, they would find neither contraband nor
any unlicenced TV set.


because you haven't ditched your TV licence.


Indeed. And neither have I ever been involved in the handling of
contraband, so it's difficult to imagine how they could generate a
plausible suspicion that I had.

Where should I send the bill for repairs?



HMRC don't pay for repairs, they have no legal obligation to pay for repairs.


Interesting. Do you happen to know who does? We've all seen lots of
those gung-ho documentaries about officials, usually the cops,
smashing doors down, but never anything about what happens afterwards,
particularly if they smash the door of an innocent householder.

Rod.
  #113  
Old August 17th 15, 02:11 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Peter Duncanson
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Posts: 4,272
Default 4k TV on Freesat or Freeview?

On Mon, 17 Aug 2015 12:52:55 +0200, Martin wrote:

On Mon, 17 Aug 2015 11:37:40 +0100, Roderick Stewart
wrote:

On Sun, 16 Aug 2015 22:53:30 +0100, Peter Duncanson
wrote:

The Weather Forecasts on the BBC are provided by the Met Office.

Yes.


Indeed. You can get weather "apps" for your phone from both the BBC
and the Met Office. IMHO the presentation of the BBC one looks neater,
but the weather predicted by both of them is equally wrong.



because they all get their information from the same sources, including the Met
Office.
The areas covered by the Met Office/BBC are too large for everybody to get an
accurate weather forecast all the time.

And "accurate" is frequently misunderstood in the context of weather
forecasts. A forecast is for an area. If a forecast is for rain that
means that rain is expected to fall *somewhere in that area*. It does
not mean that there will be rain in the whole of the area.

Metcheck forecasts include probabilities.
For example the Metcheck forecast for this evening for where I live:
"0.0mm" of rain predicted but a "20%" risk of rain
Tomorrow afternoon:
"3.0mm" of rain predicted but a "5%" risk of rain
Tomorrow evening:
"0.0mm" of rain predicted but a "25%" risk of rain


Try Meteox.com


--
Peter Duncanson
(in uk.tech.digital-tv)
  #114  
Old August 17th 15, 03:44 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Roderick Stewart[_3_]
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Posts: 2,246
Default 4k TV on Freesat or Freeview?

On Mon, 17 Aug 2015 17:15:27 +0200, Martin wrote:

Youre quite free to ditch your tv licence and wonder off to tax free
Amazon right now if you want. Just make sure you cut off your tv and
satellite co-ax cables so you can show the inspector if they can be
bothered to come round, so as to prove it is impossible for you to
receive television programmes.

Given that TV licence inspectors have no right of entry to your house,
.
indeed they haven't, but I understsnd that HMRC can make a forced entry if
they believe there to be contraband on the premises. The two have been
know to work together.

If they broke into my house, they would find neither contraband nor
any unlicenced TV set.

because you haven't ditched your TV licence.


Indeed. And neither have I ever been involved in the handling of
contraband, so it's difficult to imagine how they could generate a
plausible suspicion that I had.

Where should I send the bill for repairs?


HMRC don't pay for repairs, they have no legal obligation to pay for repairs.


Interesting. Do you happen to know who does? We've all seen lots of
those gung-ho documentaries about officials, usually the cops,
smashing doors down, but never anything about what happens afterwards,
particularly if they smash the door of an innocent householder.


A relative received a payment to cover the cost of the replacement of a window
broken by the police. A neighbour thought the relative was ill.
I did know of somebody, who had all the wooden paneling ripped out of his yacht
by what in those days was C&E. He received no compensation despite the search
yielding nothing illegal


Sometimes I feel we may have more to fear from the forces of law and
order than from the criminals against whom those forces are supposed
to protect us.

Rod.
  #115  
Old August 17th 15, 04:47 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Jim Lesurf[_2_]
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Posts: 4,326
Default 4k TV on Freesat or Freeview?

In article , Roderick Stewart
wrote:
On Mon, 17 Aug 2015 12:03:21 +0100, Jim Lesurf
wrote:


The future of broadcasting, all broadcasting, is the internet,


Yes, that seems quite likely. However...

and the BBC is becoming an ever more insignificant part of it.


Really? I'd be interested in seeing detailed evidence for that belief.


I probably don't have what you'd count as "detailed evidence" in the
form of graphs and charts, as I haven't carried out an actual survey on
this, but even the most casual general observation of the way ordinary
people are spending their time in front of screens and in the presence
of loudspeakers will make it clear that much of what they are watching
and listening to now has nothing to do with the BBC.


OK, that tells us your statement was just your belief based on selected
cases whose actual statistical significance is dubious. i.e OSAF. Might
have been better if you'd made plain it was simply your guess or belief.

I asked, because I do wonder what the stats may be, and how they are
changing. I'm not even sure who could tell without either a serious survey
or asking the ISPs who carry a large enough fraction of the traffic.

There would also, of course, be the question of what "significance" might
be in the context. Some kinds of content/access might be more "significant"
than others. So it may not simply be a person-hour count.


I remember when the BBC was the only source of *any* broadcasting in
this country. Then we acquired a second television channel, then a third
and a fourth, and somewhere during that time a number of independent
radio stations appeared. Then somebody invented the internet, and that
technology and its availability were gradually improved until it too
could be used for entertainment purposes. The result is that once the
BBC was the only broadcast entertainment service there was, but now it's
one amongst thousands of others. I remember all this because I was there
- it has all happened within my lifetime and shows no sign of stopping.
This may not count as detailed evidence, but I think it shows a dramatic
change in the significance of the BBC amongst all the other related
services that are available to us now, those other services having
climbed to their present ubiquitous status from absolute nonexistance.


I'd agree that it means that the BBC now get somewhat less than 100
percent. Which is a very different statement than your earlier one!

I'd have said that many millions of people still watch/listen to the BBC on
a daily basis. That doesn't seem to me anywhere near "insignificant",
particularly given the range and types of content provided. But reliable
figures across all delivery methods would be nice.

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

  #116  
Old August 17th 15, 04:55 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Johnny B Good[_2_]
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Posts: 513
Default 4k TV on Freesat or Freeview?

On Mon, 17 Aug 2015 14:06:56 +0100, Bill Wright wrote:

Roderick Stewart wrote:

I've encountered people with Freeview HD receivers selecting channels 1
to 4 even when I've pointed out to them that the same programmes are
available in HD on channels 101 to 104, and they are apparently quite
happy with what they are watching. Maybe they just can't be bothered to
type the extra digits, or don't see any advantage.


You can lead a horse to water but you can't get milk out of a blind bat.

Sorry Bill, that's only a half "truth".

Just to set the record straight:

http://www.bats.org.uk/pages/all_about_bats.html

--
Johnny B Good
  #117  
Old August 17th 15, 08:37 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
James Heaton
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Posts: 117
Default 4k TV on Freesat or Freeview?


"Martin" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 16 Aug 2015 18:50:25 +0100, Charles Hope
wrote:

In article , Roderick Stewart
wrote:
On Sun, 16 Aug 2015 12:12:37 +0100, "_Unknown_Freelancer_" /dev/null
wrote:


But to output a stream of BALANCED content for the UK populous,
accessable by EVERYONE (technically illiterate Nans included), you MUST
have FTA tv channels.


A balance of cookery, DIY and quizzes? Really? And who decides what sort
of "balance" the news and current affairs should have?


All of these subscription services that are popping up at the moment
have some sort of niche. Each of them is very good at one sort of
thing. None of them offer a comprehensive balance. And Id be really
grateful if you could tell me which subscription service will offer me
up to the minute information when the great british summer weather
dumps 20cm of rain in my locality in 30minutes!


The accepted standard for weather forecasts in the UK doesn't seem to be
terribly high. There have been many occasions when I've believed the BBC
weather forecast and gone out without a coat or brolly and been soaked.
I'm sure the BBC can't be the only ones who can do the job to this level
of accuracy.


The Weather Forecasts on the BBC are provided by the Met Office.


Not 100%, there are some free lancers like Paul Hudson.


Most of the regional presenters are non-Met Office.

For many years, Weather Quest who are based at the University of East Anglia
covered Look East and Radio Norfolk.

However, that contract was 'insourced' to London weather hub in 2012. Do
feel this damaged the accuracy, weatherquest were much quicker at responding
to changes in the weather.
http://www.northnorfolknews.co.uk/ne...folk_1_1674658

James

  #118  
Old August 17th 15, 08:47 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Vir Campestris
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 439
Default 4k TV on Freesat or Freeview?

On 17/08/2015 17:55, Johnny B Good wrote:
On Mon, 17 Aug 2015 14:06:56 +0100, Bill Wright wrote:

Roderick Stewart wrote:

I've encountered people with Freeview HD receivers selecting channels 1
to 4 even when I've pointed out to them that the same programmes are
available in HD on channels 101 to 104, and they are apparently quite
happy with what they are watching. Maybe they just can't be bothered to
type the extra digits, or don't see any advantage.


You can lead a horse to water but you can't get milk out of a blind bat.

Sorry Bill, that's only a half "truth".

Just to set the record straight:

http://www.bats.org.uk/pages/all_about_bats.html

It's at least 3/4 true. I'm sure baby bats can get milk from their
mothers, but I'd like to see you do it!

Andy
  #119  
Old August 18th 15, 08:53 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Roderick Stewart[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,246
Default 4k TV on Freesat or Freeview?

On Mon, 17 Aug 2015 17:47:45 +0100, Jim Lesurf
wrote:

and the BBC is becoming an ever more insignificant part of it.

Really? I'd be interested in seeing detailed evidence for that belief.


I probably don't have what you'd count as "detailed evidence" in the
form of graphs and charts, as I haven't carried out an actual survey on
this, but even the most casual general observation of the way ordinary
people are spending their time in front of screens and in the presence
of loudspeakers will make it clear that much of what they are watching
and listening to now has nothing to do with the BBC.


OK, that tells us your statement was just your belief based on selected
cases whose actual statistical significance is dubious. i.e OSAF. Might
have been better if you'd made plain it was simply your guess or belief.


It's a little more than "just my belief" that the BBC was once the
only source of broadcast material in the UK but is now one amongst
many. My inability to provide exact statistical numbers doesn't alter
this fundamental fact. If you're unable to accept the truth unless
it's accompanied by numbers, I'm sure they can be found.

Although I couldn't give you an exact statistical breakdown of who is
using all these extra sources that didn't exist when the BBC began,
it's pretty clear that *somebody* must be using them or it wouldn't
have been worth anybody's trouble and expense to provide them. Given
that their number has gone from "zero" to "lots" within my lifetime,
it seems equally clear which way their future is most likely to go.
This may not count as the mathematical proof you seem to require, but
I usually find commonsense a pretty good guide.

Rod.
  #120  
Old August 18th 15, 09:05 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
tony sayer
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Posts: 5,001
Default 4k TV on Freesat or Freeview?

The Proms are most often quoted as the programmes that nobody else
could make, possibly because they're about the only thing left that
could qualify for consideration, and in my case are probably the only
thing that *might* entice me to pay a subscription if that were the
only way they were available. But there are classical music
subscription services already, Medici, and the Berlin Philharmonic to
name a couple of examples, and plenty of free sources too, so the BBC
is no longer alone even in this field.

Rod.


In fact I went to see the Turangalīla Symphony by Messiaen last week and
although the place wasn't packed due I suppose to it being a midweek
night, what was very gratifying was to see the number of young people
there and they were very engrossed in the work all leaning very much
over the balcony lots of pointing to the various instruments, and hushed
conversations between them. I think they were amazed that such a work
used a very early electronic instrument!

There were a couple of young teenage girls next to me said they had to
drag their dad down from Sheffield and one of them said at the end,

"that were reet fantastic that were, never knew that these 'ere
classics could be that interesting".


For that in my mind, the BBC deserves the licence fee alone!......
--
Tony Sayer



 




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