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uk.tech.digital-tv (Digital TV - General) (uk.tech.digital-tv) Discussion of all matters technical in origin related to the reception of digital television transmissions, be they via satellite, terrestrial or cable. Advertising is forbidden, with no exceptions.

DAB new Crystal Palace etc



 
 
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  #51  
Old December 29th 13, 09:32 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Alan White[_2_]
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Default DAB new Crystal Palace etc

On Sun, 29 Dec 2013 20:41:55 +0000, Scott
wrote:

Are there any documented (online) details of this?


This might help a bit:-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geneva_...y_Plan_of_1975

--
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  #52  
Old December 29th 13, 10:12 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Phil Cook
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Default DAB new Crystal Palace etc

On 29/12/2013 18:55, Scott wrote:
On Sun, 29 Dec 2013 18:34:39 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:


IIRC, my VideoLogic cost about 150 gbp. The same as a decent FM tuner. But
by the time DAB had arrived few actually used radio as a primary source
for their listening. So weren't going to spend lots on something which
offered little over FM for the rare occasion when they did use it. It
might well have been different if it had arrived many years earlier.

There were certainly reasonably priced receivers around while the data
rates were high. Just few listeners.


IIRC Videologic was the predecessor company to Pure Digital. I do
remember that unit but I believe the first tuner was from Arcam, which
I think did cost 900. Videologic was the start of the price drop.


Nod, nod, nod.

I can't remember hat my Videologic tuner cost but it was very nice to
listen to BBC radio at decent bitrate while it lasted.

FM is useless here due to piracy. Until Freeview came along DAB was my
preferred way of listening to Radio 3.
--
Phil Cook
  #53  
Old December 29th 13, 11:14 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Dave Plowman (News)
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Default DAB new Crystal Palace etc

In article ,
Scott wrote:
Are there any documented (online) details of this? I thought it
coincided with the 1978 changes but I am highly likely to be wrong on
account of lack of any documented details! I am sure I remember
medium wave sounding better when I was a boy than it does now (but
from my other postings I may be guilty of making exaggerated claims
about my ability to discern sound quality!).


It did - although it would also depend on the particular transmitter and
how good the lines feeding it were. As an example of the last bit, FM
quality in the North of Scotland was pretty dire when carrying the
national services at one time - a local opt out was a revelation. All due
to the poor landlines.

I have a wide band AM receiver (Quad) and at one time the difference
between R1 MW and FM R2 (when they were doing a simulcast) in the London
area was far less than you'd believe today.

--
*Change is inevitable, except from a vending machine*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
  #54  
Old December 29th 13, 11:16 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Dave Plowman (News)
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Default DAB new Crystal Palace etc

In article ,
Phil Cook wrote:
IIRC Videologic was the predecessor company to Pure Digital. I do
remember that unit but I believe the first tuner was from Arcam, which
I think did cost 900. Videologic was the start of the price drop.


Nod, nod, nod.


I can't remember hat my Videologic tuner cost but it was very nice to
listen to BBC radio at decent bitrate while it lasted.


FM is useless here due to piracy. Until Freeview came along DAB was my
preferred way of listening to Radio 3.


It was here too - but due to multipath in S London, until the CP FM
transmitters arrived.

--
*It's this dirty because I washed it with your wife's knickers*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
  #56  
Old December 30th 13, 06:12 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Roderick Stewart[_3_]
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Default DAB new Crystal Palace etc

On Sun, 29 Dec 2013 15:10:23 +0000 (GMT), charles
wrote:

so can anyone say why this spelling error exists? Could it be deliberate?
Fit in a car radio display or something stupid.


It doesn't say "BBC Surry", it says "BBCSurry". The RDS spec only allows 8
characters for the station name.


So it's as advanced as MSDos then?

Rod.
  #57  
Old December 30th 13, 11:21 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Phil Cook
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Posts: 437
Default DAB new Crystal Palace etc

On 30/12/2013 00:16, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Phil Cook wrote:


FM is useless here due to piracy. Until Freeview came along DAB was my
preferred way of listening to Radio 3.


It was here too - but due to multipath in S London, until the CP FM
transmitters arrived.


I have line of sight to CP about 6.5 km. Unfortunately I also have
line of sight to pirates.

I can get reasonable reception from my Topfield with just the link
between the two tuners plugged in. I had to remove it when it was
suffering from a repeating crash reboot cycle when the BBC made MHEG
changes a while back.
--
Phil Cook
  #58  
Old December 30th 13, 12:41 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Andy Burns[_8_]
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Default DAB new Crystal Palace etc

Roderick Stewart wrote:

There isn't much hope of this as long as the technically ignorant
remain in charge. Instead of engineering expertise expended on fixing
the problem we can expect managers and marketers to continue to lie to
us and tell us that it doesn't need fixing.


What *would* count as an worthwhile fix for DAB?

Short-term switching of all MUXes to DAB+ would likely kill off most of
the audience, how many would want to be bitten again?

Do any of the (40?) band III frequencies remain un-allocated, that could
be used to allow parallel running of DAB+ ?

For the BBC SFN, presumably we're close to the point where increasing
transmitter power or adding extra fill-in transmitters to improve
blackspots will cause corresponding degradation of reception in areas
which are currently well served due to trampling on signals outside the
guard interval?

Dropping a few stations per MUX to improve the audio quality? That feels
unlikely to happen. Maybe a partial solution is to kick some "minor"
stations over to a DAB+ MUX and leave the "main" stations on DAB with
improved bandwidth? Who chooses which part of the audience to upset,
rather than all of the audience?

Wait for internet radio to kill broadcast radio?

Just live live with it as is? It's a bit warty but for speech radio
it's acceptable to me.

  #59  
Old December 30th 13, 03:56 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Mark Carver
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Posts: 7,633
Default DAB new Crystal Palace etc

Andy Burns wrote:

For the BBC SFN, presumably we're close to the point where increasing
transmitter power or adding extra fill-in transmitters to improve
blackspots will cause corresponding degradation of reception in areas
which are currently well served due to trampling on signals outside the
guard interval?


AIUI that point has already been reached in East Anglia.

--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.
  #60  
Old December 30th 13, 04:06 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Mark Carver
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Posts: 7,633
Default DAB new Crystal Palace etc

Roderick Stewart wrote:

The first time I recall seeing any mention of a deliberate reduction
of audio bandwidth for AM broadcast was in one of the IBA Technical
Review books about ILR, where it gave specifications for the
transmitted signal. I'd have to look it up to be certain, but I think
the figures were 14.7kHz for FM and 4.7kHz for AM.


More or less, yes, IBA Tech Review 5, page 39. Flat to 5 kHz, 20dB down
at 6 kHz, 40dB down at 7 kHz.

GPO/BT 'Tarrif M' circuits were used to feed the AM stations, which had
a nominal bandwidth of 6.4 kHz.

The IBA used an over air telemetry sub carrier on 4.7 kHz for AM, and 14 kHz
for FM, to relay Tx status data back to the ILR station.

--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.
 




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