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uk.tech.digital-tv (Digital TV - General) (uk.tech.digital-tv) Discussion of all matters technical in origin related to the reception of digital television transmissions, be they via satellite, terrestrial or cable. Advertising is forbidden, with no exceptions.

Sharp Aquos - Missing Muxes (or Service Not Collected)



 
 
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  #1  
Old December 26th 13, 12:04 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Archway
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Posts: 1
Default Sharp Aquos - Missing Muxes (or Service Not Collected)

Struggled for ages with this one my LC-52XD1E would not pick up
Channel 28 from Crystal Palace but had no trouble picking up the other
4 non-HD channels.

Manually getting the set to scan either Channel 28 or frequency 530000
produced no stations and an error "Service Not Collected".

Eventually I noted on the UKFree.TV website that Channel 28 from
Crystal Palace, while nominally 530000 is actually 529800KHz.

Entering 529800 into the manual search allowed the TV to find all the
stations muxed on C28.

Posted in the hope the search engines will find it and save someone
from wasting time sorting this out.

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  #2  
Old December 26th 13, 01:27 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Ian Jackson[_2_]
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Posts: 2,968
Default Sharp Aquos - Missing Muxes (or Service Not Collected)

In message , Archway
writes
Struggled for ages with this one my LC-52XD1E would not pick up
Channel 28 from Crystal Palace but had no trouble picking up the other
4 non-HD channels.

Manually getting the set to scan either Channel 28 or frequency 530000
produced no stations and an error "Service Not Collected".

Eventually I noted on the UKFree.TV website that Channel 28 from
Crystal Palace, while nominally 530000 is actually 529800KHz.

Entering 529800 into the manual search allowed the TV to find all the
stations muxed on C28.

Posted in the hope the search engines will find it and save someone
from wasting time sorting this out.

Where offsets are applied, they are normally +/- 167kHz, so 529800KHz
(if it really IS 529800KHz) is -200kHz, so non-standard. This needs to
be verified.

But you appear not to be alone in having a problem with offset channels.
For example, quick Google on ' freeview channel offset' brings up many
hits, including this forum:
http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1129035
From what is says, the receiver *should* cope with such offsets.
However, this is pre-analogue switch-off, and you really need to find a
really up-to-date list of exact channel frequencies.

Come to think about it, I seem to recall that I also had trouble with an
ageing set-top box which, on an automatic scan, tended to miss one of
the Crystal Palace muxes. Fortunately, it also had the option of doing a
manual tune (and not all receivers do).
--
Ian
  #3  
Old December 27th 13, 08:40 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Brian Gaff
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Posts: 7,250
Default Sharp Aquos - Missing Muxes (or Service Not Collected)

so why the slight move??

Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"Archway" wrote in message
...
Struggled for ages with this one my LC-52XD1E would not pick up
Channel 28 from Crystal Palace but had no trouble picking up the other
4 non-HD channels.

Manually getting the set to scan either Channel 28 or frequency 530000
produced no stations and an error "Service Not Collected".

Eventually I noted on the UKFree.TV website that Channel 28 from
Crystal Palace, while nominally 530000 is actually 529800KHz.

Entering 529800 into the manual search allowed the TV to find all the
stations muxed on C28.

Posted in the hope the search engines will find it and save someone
from wasting time sorting this out.



  #4  
Old December 27th 13, 09:44 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Woody[_5_]
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Posts: 1,865
Default Sharp Aquos - Missing Muxes (or Service Not Collected)


Most main stations - but not all - run on frequency, but a
considerable number of relays work on offset frequencies,
hence why if you look at the tables you will find the odd
station with 27+ or 31- as the frequency. As it happens CP
is one of those stations with PSB3 on 30- and Com6 on 28-.
The frequency offset in the UK is 167KHz.


--
Woody

harrogate three at ntlworld dot com


"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
...
so why the slight move??

Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"Archway" wrote in message
...
Struggled for ages with this one my LC-52XD1E would not
pick up
Channel 28 from Crystal Palace but had no trouble picking
up the other
4 non-HD channels.

Manually getting the set to scan either Channel 28 or
frequency 530000
produced no stations and an error "Service Not
Collected".

Eventually I noted on the UKFree.TV website that Channel
28 from
Crystal Palace, while nominally 530000 is actually
529800KHz.

Entering 529800 into the manual search allowed the TV to
find all the
stations muxed on C28.

Posted in the hope the search engines will find it and
save someone
from wasting time sorting this out.






  #5  
Old December 27th 13, 07:13 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Bill Wright[_2_]
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Posts: 9,381
Default Sharp Aquos - Missing Muxes (or Service Not Collected)

Woody wrote:
Most main stations - but not all - run on frequency, but a
considerable number of relays work on offset frequencies,
hence why if you look at the tables you will find the odd
station with 27+ or 31- as the frequency. As it happens CP
is one of those stations with PSB3 on 30- and Com6 on 28-.
The frequency offset in the UK is 167KHz.



Without bothering to look it up, aren't all the ch21, ch30, ch39 and
ch60 muxes offset?

Bill
  #6  
Old December 27th 13, 07:50 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Woody[_5_]
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Posts: 1,865
Default Sharp Aquos - Missing Muxes (or Service Not Collected)

"Bill Wright" wrote in message
...
Woody wrote:
Most main stations - but not all - run on frequency, but
a considerable number of relays work on offset
frequencies, hence why if you look at the tables you will
find the odd station with 27+ or 31- as the frequency. As
it happens CP is one of those stations with PSB3 on 30-
and Com6 on 28-. The frequency offset in the UK is
167KHz.



Without bothering to look it up, aren't all the ch21,
ch30, ch39 and ch60 muxes offset?



You may well be right (sic!) I did two on DSO and frequency
clearance off Mendip, both use 21 and had positive offset,
and I did one in Wales on 60 that had negative offset.
Curiously Moel y Parc has PSB2 on 39+ and COM4-6 all offset
on channels other than those you mention i.e. 51-, 52+ and
48-.


--
Woody

harrogate three at ntlworld dot com


  #7  
Old December 27th 13, 08:58 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Ian Jackson[_2_]
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Posts: 2,968
Default Sharp Aquos - Missing Muxes (or Service Not Collected)

In message , Woody
writes
"Bill Wright" wrote in message
...
Woody wrote:
Most main stations - but not all - run on frequency, but
a considerable number of relays work on offset
frequencies, hence why if you look at the tables you will
find the odd station with 27+ or 31- as the frequency. As
it happens CP is one of those stations with PSB3 on 30-
and Com6 on 28-. The frequency offset in the UK is
167KHz.



Without bothering to look it up, aren't all the ch21,
ch30, ch39 and ch60 muxes offset?



You may well be right (sic!) I did two on DSO and frequency
clearance off Mendip, both use 21 and had positive offset,
and I did one in Wales on 60 that had negative offset.
Curiously Moel y Parc has PSB2 on 39+ and COM4-6 all offset
on channels other than those you mention i.e. 51-, 52+ and
48-.

In a sentence or two, what is the reason for these offsets (when
applied)? The analogue offset of five-thirds line frequency* (appx +/-
26kHz) was to minimise the visibility of co-channel beats, and I believe
some of the original offsets of the digitals was to move away slightly
from the NICAM of lower adjacent analogues. However, what is the reason
for continuing the digital offsets? Is it simply to help the receiver
decoder to ignore co-channel, or is there a more subtle reason?
[*Apart from a couple of oddballs, which were, I believe, 1/12th line
frequency.]
--
Ian
  #8  
Old December 28th 13, 05:34 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Woody[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,865
Default Sharp Aquos - Missing Muxes (or Service Not Collected)

"Ian Jackson" wrote
in message ...
In message , Woody
writes
"Bill Wright" wrote in message
...
Woody wrote:
Most main stations - but not all - run on frequency,
but
a considerable number of relays work on offset
frequencies, hence why if you look at the tables you
will
find the odd station with 27+ or 31- as the frequency.
As
it happens CP is one of those stations with PSB3 on 30-
and Com6 on 28-. The frequency offset in the UK is
167KHz.



Without bothering to look it up, aren't all the ch21,
ch30, ch39 and ch60 muxes offset?



You may well be right (sic!) I did two on DSO and
frequency
clearance off Mendip, both use 21 and had positive offset,
and I did one in Wales on 60 that had negative offset.
Curiously Moel y Parc has PSB2 on 39+ and COM4-6 all
offset
on channels other than those you mention i.e. 51-, 52+ and
48-.

In a sentence or two, what is the reason for these offsets
(when applied)? The analogue offset of five-thirds line
frequency* (appx +/- 26kHz) was to minimise the visibility
of co-channel beats, and I believe some of the original
offsets of the digitals was to move away slightly from the
NICAM of lower adjacent analogues. However, what is the
reason for continuing the digital offsets? Is it simply to
help the receiver decoder to ignore co-channel, or is
there a more subtle reason?
[*Apart from a couple of oddballs, which were, I believe,
1/12th line frequency.]




Well, there is one thing that you will notice - it is always
21+ and 60- which are band edge presumably to stop
splatter/noise out of band. From experience transmitters on
these channels also have a band edge filter for a similar
purpose.

Having said that I have just noticed that Skipton Town use
21 and Primrose Hill (Huddersfield,) Hasland, and Edale all
use 60 both with no offset, so I suspect that there could be
other reasons afoot.


--
Woody

harrogate three at ntlworld dot com



 




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