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O/T ADSL Interference



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 20th 07, 10:31 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Keith Bailey
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 52
Default O/T ADSL Interference

I know this is not about digital TV but there are a lot of good
engineers who read this NG, so I thought I would try to tap into the
assembled wisdom.

I have had problems with my broadband connection ever since it was
"upgraded" to 8Mb/s last year. There were definitely problems in the
exchange which have now been fixed, but I am still seeing problems with
throughput due to the RAS (rate adaptive server) capping the IP profile
(max throughput). BT have changed out parts of the line (2km from the
exchange) & declare the external plant OK. The latest BT bod to call
said that, whilst my premises wiring is not "faulty", there is a lot of
it which is acting as an aerial & inducing interference into the DSL
modem. For the past few days I've had the modem connected directly to
the incoming drop wire with the premises wiring disconnected & just one
phone plugged into the modem's microfilter.

This has improved the DSL sync rate a bit & has enabled the RAS to keep
a good throughput cap level, thus suggesting that the BT bod is right.
SO, I was considering bodging the installation a bit to connect the
whole premises wiring installation to the phone port on the microfilter
& leave the modem connected at the master socket. My reasoning is that
the microfilter is low pass on the phone port & it should introduce a
good few dBs of loss at the higher frequencies used by ADSL so not
introduce so much noise into the modem. I have 3 extensions plus a DECT
base-station connected, but on three floors.

Is this a reasonable thing to do?



--
Keith Bailey
Ads
  #2  
Old July 20th 07, 11:14 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Andy Burns
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 202
Default O/T ADSL Interference

On 20/07/2007 11:31, Keith Bailey wrote:

I was considering bodging the installation a bit to connect the
whole premises wiring installation to the phone port on the microfilter
& leave the modem connected at the master socket.


Not a bodge at all, in fact get an ADSL face plate and have no dangly
microfilters at all.

e.g. "ADSL Master Faceplate Splitter" at
http://www.solwise.co.uk/adsl_splitters.htm





  #3  
Old July 20th 07, 11:18 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Paul D.Smith
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Posts: 1,070
Default O/T ADSL Interference

....snip...

You can replace the master socket with something that contains the
appropriate filter and allows you to independently (should you wish) wire
the phone and ADSL portions.

You end up with...

new master socket panel --- phone(s)
|
+-- ADSL

Note that you will not require micro filters on the phones because the new
master socket front panel does all the filtering you need.

See www.solwise.co.uk for example or www.clarity.it do one that also allows
you to extend the ADSL around the house. Beware that the "standard"
faceplate splitter passes phone out over the internal wires but terminates
ADSL at the socket on the faceplace.

Paul DS.


  #4  
Old July 20th 07, 11:18 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Paul Schofield
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 85
Default O/T ADSL Interference


"Keith Bailey" wrote in message
...
I know this is not about digital TV but there are a lot of good
engineers who read this NG, so I thought I would try to tap into the
assembled wisdom.

I have had problems with my broadband connection ever since it was
"upgraded" to 8Mb/s last year. There were definitely problems in the
exchange which have now been fixed, but I am still seeing problems with
throughput due to the RAS (rate adaptive server) capping the IP profile
(max throughput). BT have changed out parts of the line (2km from the
exchange) & declare the external plant OK. The latest BT bod to call
said that, whilst my premises wiring is not "faulty", there is a lot of
it which is acting as an aerial & inducing interference into the DSL
modem. For the past few days I've had the modem connected directly to
the incoming drop wire with the premises wiring disconnected & just one
phone plugged into the modem's microfilter.

This has improved the DSL sync rate a bit & has enabled the RAS to keep
a good throughput cap level, thus suggesting that the BT bod is right.
SO, I was considering bodging the installation a bit to connect the
whole premises wiring installation to the phone port on the microfilter
& leave the modem connected at the master socket.


You don't need to bodge this, you can buy 'master' boxes that are fitted at
the incoming line and split the telephone and ADSL connections.

For example see the ADSL Master Faceplate Splitter at

http://www.solwise.co.uk/adsl_splitters.htm

--
Paul


  #5  
Old July 20th 07, 01:02 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Alan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 927
Default O/T ADSL Interference

In message , Keith Bailey
wrote



Is this a reasonable thing to do?


With modern phones try disconnecting the ring wire to all the
extensions. It acts like an aerial picking up noise.

http://groups.google.com/group/uk.co...read/thread/a0
c096eb6392f0ff/50fc5a486e232b12?lnk=st&q=adsl+ring+wire&rnum=2#50 fc5a486e
232b12
--
Alan
news2006 {at} amac {dot} f2s {dot} com

  #6  
Old July 20th 07, 01:16 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Paul D.Smith
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,070
Default O/T ADSL Interference

....snip...
With modern phones try disconnecting the ring wire to all the extensions.
It acts like an aerial picking up noise.


Fine providing you don't need your phones to ring - ever. UK phones do
still use the third wire which is why if you buy SIP/phone boxes, you often
have to put a small converter between the US style socket and the UK phone.
The adapter doesn't just convert the socket styles, it "enabled" the third
line to make the phone ring. Far better to change the faceplate, as the
thread you referenced mentioned.

BTW, the thread also mentions "AM aerials" - with a surge protector
connected to my phones, they do indeed pick up AM radio quite nicely. It
was originally there to protect my modem/PC. Now I use broadband I've been
able to remove it.

Paul DS


  #7  
Old July 20th 07, 01:21 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Brian McIlwrath
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 783
Default O/T ADSL Interference

Paul D.Smith wrote:
: ...snip...
: With modern phones try disconnecting the ring wire to all the extensions.
: It acts like an aerial picking up noise.

: Fine providing you don't need your phones to ring - ever.

Very misleading! If the extension phones are used with an ADSL filter (which
*ALL* should be in this situation) they *WILL* ring just fine - as the ADSL
filter itself sorts this out! My "ring" wire is disconnected at the master
socket with no problems!
  #8  
Old July 20th 07, 01:30 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Graham W
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 87
Default O/T ADSL Interference

Paul D.Smith wrote:
...snip...
With modern phones try disconnecting the ring wire to all the
extensions. It acts like an aerial picking up noise.


Fine providing you don't need your phones to ring - ever. UK phones
do still use the third wire which is why if you buy SIP/phone boxes,
you often have to put a small converter between the US style socket
and the UK phone. The adapter doesn't just convert the socket styles,
it "enabled" the third line to make the phone ring. Far better to
change the faceplate, as the thread you referenced mentioned.

BTW, the thread also mentions "AM aerials" - with a surge protector
connected to my phones, they do indeed pick up AM radio quite nicely.
It was originally there to protect my modem/PC. Now I use broadband
I've been able to remove it.


That's a bit of an alarmist statement Paul

Very few UK phones use the 'bell' wire, mainly the the PO ones with
a real bell in them. But the device you mention that magically
converts a 2-wire US lead to provide a third 'bell' wire is only IMHO a
capacitor inside it.

Any phone with an electronic bell generator should work without
a 'bell' wire as it picks up the bell ringing signal from the two wires.
This also includes DECT phones as well.


--
--
Graham W http://www.gcw.org.uk/ XP1800+ Page added, Graphics Tutorial
WIMBORNE http://www.wessex-astro.org.uk/ Wessex Astro Society's Website
Dorset UK Info, Meeting Dates, Sites & Maps


  #9  
Old July 20th 07, 01:45 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Paul D.Smith
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,070
Default O/T ADSL Interference

"Brian McIlwrath" wrote in message
...
Paul D.Smith wrote:
: ...snip...
: With modern phones try disconnecting the ring wire to all the
extensions.
: It acts like an aerial picking up noise.

: Fine providing you don't need your phones to ring - ever.

Very misleading! If the extension phones are used with an ADSL filter
(which
*ALL* should be in this situation) they *WILL* ring just fine - as the
ADSL
filter itself sorts this out! My "ring" wire is disconnected at the master
socket with no problems!


Interesting. I am very surprised to find that an ADSL filter would go
anywhere near the ring wire as surely it has no need to. If the ring wire
were connected both at the master socket AND at the ADSL filter then
potentially you have a classic loop situation so no wonder they work as
wonderful antenna.

Paul DS.


  #10  
Old July 20th 07, 01:53 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Paul D.Smith
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,070
Default O/T ADSL Interference

....snip...
Very few UK phones use the 'bell' wire, mainly the the PO ones with
a real bell in them. But the device you mention that magically
converts a 2-wire US lead to provide a third 'bell' wire is only IMHO a
capacitor inside it.

Any phone with an electronic bell generator should work without
a 'bell' wire as it picks up the bell ringing signal from the two wires.
This also includes DECT phones as well.


Perhaps I've been very unlucky. I work with a lot of SIP converters from
different companies that produce "two-wire" output and we've never had a
single UK phone model connected to them ring when plugged in without the
converter (should look up the correct name!).

However, the following link, http://www.adslnation.com/support/filters.php,
shows some internals for ADSL filters and does indeed show the ring signal
being extracted from the filtered side of the filter as another poster
implies. This makes the ring wire totally redundant "upstream" (from master
socket to filter). However it someone then decides they don't want ADSL and
removes all the filters, you get left with a socket that might not make your
phone ring.

Personally I've used the http://www.clarify.it filter plate and used the
unused two wires (I have 6-wire phone cable throughout my house) to extend
the ADSL in parallel, but separate to, the phone wires. It works fine at
2MB/s but I don't have the nice monitor that the Google group post refers
to.

Paul DS.


 




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