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LCD TV picture quality



 
 
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  #1  
Old December 29th 06, 06:13 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
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Posts: 6
Default LCD TV picture quality

I've just bought a new 40" Samsung LCD TV. On setting it up, I
discovered the quality of the picture is pretty bad. Vertical lines
across the entire picture, blurry edges to figures on the TV and a kind
of pixellated effect that all adds up to a pretty poor quality picture.
I asked in the shop, and they said it was probably a bad quality scart
lead, so I bought a top-quality new one - but no difference.

When watching a DVD, it's fine - it's just the picture that's coming
from my standard Sky digital box. So I spoke to Sky about it and they
say I should upgrade to Sky+ or Sky HD as the signal from standard Sky
looks poor on large screens. Is this true? Or is this just them trying
to sell me something extra? Having just blown all my savings on the TV,
the thought of spending an extra 300 on an HD box is terrifying. Does
anyone have any advice? Is there anything I can do to improve picture
quality? And has anyone else experienced poor quality from Sky after
buying a large screen TV?

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  #2  
Old December 29th 06, 06:53 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
{{{{{Welcome}}}}}
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Posts: 370
Default LCD TV picture quality

Thus spaketh :
I've just bought a new 40" Samsung LCD TV. On setting it up, I
discovered the quality of the picture is pretty bad. Vertical lines
across the entire picture, blurry edges to figures on the TV and a
kind of pixellated effect that all adds up to a pretty poor quality
picture. I asked in the shop, and they said it was probably a bad
quality scart lead, so I bought a top-quality new one - but no
difference.

When watching a DVD, it's fine - it's just the picture that's coming
from my standard Sky digital box. So I spoke to Sky about it and they
say I should upgrade to Sky+ or Sky HD as the signal from standard Sky
looks poor on large screens. Is this true? Or is this just them trying
to sell me something extra? Having just blown all my savings on the
TV, the thought of spending an extra 300 on an HD box is terrifying.
Does anyone have any advice? Is there anything I can do to improve
picture quality? And has anyone else experienced poor quality from
Sky after buying a large screen TV?



LCD do show up poor quality pictures, also LCD TVs aren't great either,
better off with a CRT TV.

Snake Oil used to sell a scart lead that will make no difference to a
good quality fully screened 5 one.

Most digital channels are highly compressed, so are only really good on
a small screen, CRT TVs are better able to cope with the low quality
picture.

At the moment Sky HD channels are no too compressed, so watching a HD
channel even on a non-HD screen will look better than a ropey SD
picture.

Many TVs have all types of digital processing, some CRTs with 100Hz, all
these need switching off and dropping to 50Hz when watching digital as
it just makes a worse mess.

You aren't going to get as crisp a picture from LCD as you do CRT, but
like CRT with LCDs there are differences between models, whereas mostly
you can get away with a cheap CRT, with LCD you need to pay a decent
amount to get anywhere a good picture.

Mainly what you are seeing is a highly compressed digital broadcast
blown up added to the fact the LCD will be having to resample the
picture to fit its own resolution.


--
60 day free DVD rental:
www.southeastbirmingham.co.uk/dvd
Mobile Offers: www.southeastbirmingham.co.uk/payg
Items for sale: www.dodgy-dealer.co.uk

  #3  
Old December 29th 06, 07:05 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
[email protected]
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Posts: 6
Default LCD TV picture quality

That is a helpful reply, thanks. More sense than I've got from Currys,
and Sky put together. It would make sense that what I'm seeing is a
compressed signal expanded - it's almost like when you take a digital
jpeg photo and expand it beyond its natural size - that's the kind of
effect I'm getting with the picture.

Question is now, what to do about it? Is the signal from Sky+ or Sky HD
less compressed than the standard Sky signal? And if I get HD, will it
only be better on the HD channels - and the same on all the others? If
so, that's no good really. The people at Sky say that, with HD, you're
getting all channels at SKY+ quality and the HD specific channels at
the even better HD quality. Do you reckon that's true?

The TV I've got is this one:
http://www.dixons.co.uk/martprd/product/seo/951546

Supposedly it's a pretty decent one, but that's according to the
salesman that flogged it to me!

Thanks again


{{{{{Welcome}}}}} wrote:
I've just bought a new 40" Samsung LCD TV. On setting it up, I
discovered the quality of the picture is pretty bad. Vertical lines
across the entire picture, blurry edges to figures on the TV and a
kind of pixellated effect that all adds up to a pretty poor quality
picture. I asked in the shop, and they said it was probably a bad
quality scart lead, so I bought a top-quality new one - but no
difference.

When watching a DVD, it's fine - it's just the picture that's coming
from my standard Sky digital box. So I spoke to Sky about it and they
say I should upgrade to Sky+ or Sky HD as the signal from standard Sky
looks poor on large screens. Is this true? Or is this just them trying
to sell me something extra? Having just blown all my savings on the
TV, the thought of spending an extra 300 on an HD box is terrifying.
Does anyone have any advice? Is there anything I can do to improve
picture quality? And has anyone else experienced poor quality from
Sky after buying a large screen TV?



LCD do show up poor quality pictures, also LCD TVs aren't great either,
better off with a CRT TV.

Snake Oil used to sell a scart lead that will make no difference to a
good quality fully screened 5 one.

Most digital channels are highly compressed, so are only really good on
a small screen, CRT TVs are better able to cope with the low quality
picture.

At the moment Sky HD channels are no too compressed, so watching a HD
channel even on a non-HD screen will look better than a ropey SD
picture.

Many TVs have all types of digital processing, some CRTs with 100Hz, all
these need switching off and dropping to 50Hz when watching digital as
it just makes a worse mess.

You aren't going to get as crisp a picture from LCD as you do CRT, but
like CRT with LCDs there are differences between models, whereas mostly
you can get away with a cheap CRT, with LCD you need to pay a decent
amount to get anywhere a good picture.

Mainly what you are seeing is a highly compressed digital broadcast
blown up added to the fact the LCD will be having to resample the
picture to fit its own resolution.


--
60 day free DVD rental: www.southeastbirmingham.co.uk/dvd
Mobile Offers: www.southeastbirmingham.co.uk/payg
Items for sale: www.dodgy-dealer.co.uk


  #4  
Old December 29th 06, 07:33 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Steve
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Posts: 23
Default LCD TV picture quality

On Fri, 29 Dec 2006 11:05:57 -0800, andrew wrote:

That is a helpful reply, thanks. More sense than I've got from Currys,
and Sky put together. It would make sense that what I'm seeing is a
compressed signal expanded - it's almost like when you take a digital
jpeg photo and expand it beyond its natural size - that's the kind of
effect I'm getting with the picture.

Question is now, what to do about it?


Try adjusting your viewing distance, it makes a world of difference.

http://www.myhometheater.homestead.c...alculator.html

Steve
  #5  
Old December 29th 06, 07:36 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Vaughan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 65
Default LCD TV picture quality

wrote:
I've just bought a new 40" Samsung LCD TV. On setting it up, I
discovered the quality of the picture is pretty bad. Vertical lines
across the entire picture, blurry edges to figures on the TV and a
kind of pixellated effect that all adds up to a pretty poor quality
picture. I asked in the shop, and they said it was probably a bad
quality scart lead, so I bought a top-quality new one - but no
difference.

When watching a DVD, it's fine - it's just the picture that's coming
from my standard Sky digital box. So I spoke to Sky about it and they
say I should upgrade to Sky+ or Sky HD as the signal from standard Sky
looks poor on large screens. Is this true? Or is this just them trying
to sell me something extra? Having just blown all my savings on the
TV, the thought of spending an extra 300 on an HD box is terrifying.
Does anyone have any advice? Is there anything I can do to improve
picture quality? And has anyone else experienced poor quality from
Sky after buying a large screen TV?


Sky are being rather sneaky if they are trying to persuade you to upgrade to
Sky plus or HD. The standard pictures are not brilliant by any means but
they are acceptable on most channels - there is undoubtedly some digital
artefacting, especially on movement, and some blockiness due to the
compression, but the pictures overall are certainly not as poor as you
describe.

Therefore there is probably an issue with the output from your Sky box - is
it set to RGB as it should be? You might find that it's only set to PAL
(composite) and on a high quality screen the difference is very noticeable.
You can check by going into 'services' - 'setup' - 'picture'. Have you
connected the Sky box to an RGB input on the TV? You could also experiment
with your TV's picture settings.

Re. your other query - as far as I know Sky plus pictures are no better than
pictures through a normal Sky box. Sky plus is simply a recording device.
Only HD offers a higher definition picture.


  #6  
Old December 29th 06, 08:25 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
{{{{{Welcome}}}}}
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Posts: 370
Default LCD TV picture quality

Thus spaketh :
{{{{{Welcome}}}}} wrote:
I've just bought a new 40" Samsung LCD TV. On setting it up, I
discovered the quality of the picture is pretty bad. Vertical lines
across the entire picture, blurry edges to figures on the TV and a
kind of pixellated effect that all adds up to a pretty poor quality
picture. I asked in the shop, and they said it was probably a bad
quality scart lead, so I bought a top-quality new one - but no
difference.

When watching a DVD, it's fine - it's just the picture that's coming
from my standard Sky digital box. So I spoke to Sky about it and
they say I should upgrade to Sky+ or Sky HD as the signal from
standard Sky looks poor on large screens. Is this true? Or is this
just them trying to sell me something extra? Having just blown all
my savings on the TV, the thought of spending an extra 300 on an
HD box is terrifying. Does anyone have any advice? Is there
anything I can do to improve picture quality? And has anyone else
experienced poor quality from Sky after buying a large screen TV?



LCD do show up poor quality pictures, also LCD TVs aren't great
either, better off with a CRT TV.

Snake Oil used to sell a scart lead that will make no difference to a
good quality fully screened 5 one.

Most digital channels are highly compressed, so are only really good
on a small screen, CRT TVs are better able to cope with the low
quality picture.

At the moment Sky HD channels are no too compressed, so watching a HD
channel even on a non-HD screen will look better than a ropey SD
picture.

Many TVs have all types of digital processing, some CRTs with 100Hz,
all these need switching off and dropping to 50Hz when watching
digital as it just makes a worse mess.

You aren't going to get as crisp a picture from LCD as you do CRT,
but like CRT with LCDs there are differences between models, whereas
mostly you can get away with a cheap CRT, with LCD you need to pay a
decent amount to get anywhere a good picture.

Mainly what you are seeing is a highly compressed digital broadcast
blown up added to the fact the LCD will be having to resample the
picture to fit its own resolution.

That is a helpful reply, thanks. More sense than I've got from Currys,
and Sky put together. It would make sense that what I'm seeing is a
compressed signal expanded - it's almost like when you take a digital
jpeg photo and expand it beyond its natural size - that's the kind of
effect I'm getting with the picture.


Yeah, that is the effect you are getting, it's like taking a 480 x 240
50% compressed JPEG and then blowing it up to 1440 x 720.

Question is now, what to do about it? Is the signal from Sky+ or Sky
HD less compressed than the standard Sky signal? And if I get HD,
will it only be better on the HD channels - and the same on all the
others? If so, that's no good really. The people at Sky say that,
with HD, you're getting all channels at SKY+ quality and the HD
specific channels at the even better HD quality. Do you reckon that's
true?


The standard definition channels (the vast majority) will be the same as
you get now with a standard box on both the Sky+ and Sky HD as these
boxes simply receive the same SD channels.

If you watch the HD versions of the channels, currently only a handful,
then these will look better than the SD versions whether you watch them
on a HD screen or SD screen, obviously they will look better with a HD
screen than a SD screen, but as the SD channels are highly compressed
then watching HD on a SD screen is better than SD on SD.



The TV I've got is this one:
http://www.dixons.co.uk/martprd/product/seo/951546

Supposedly it's a pretty decent one, but that's according to the
salesman that flogged it to me!

Thanks again


I've heard Samsung are OK, but as I'm waiting for True HD panels to come
down in price and the quality to improve, so I get a crisp picture like
I do from my CRT, I haven't paid much attention to which is better than
the other.

The product you link to has a resolution of 1366 x 768 which is quite
common, these are PC panels used in TVs to use up old stock. The screen
will have to upsample SD resolution and either upsample or downsample HD
resolution to fit.

HD is either 1280 x 720 or 1920 x 1080.

  #7  
Old December 29th 06, 08:38 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Java Jive
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Posts: 1,294
Default LCD TV picture quality

To the OP, in case you didn't know it, any post like this tends to bring
crawling out of the woodwork the armies of two opposing camps, and they're
not a pretty sight even without blood being shed. In particular, there
tends to be a lot of pseudo-science bandied about which doesn't stand up to
impartial examination.

Just so you know, I'm one of the pro-LCD ones, but I'm trying to be
impartial here, which is what you are requesting in the first place by
making a post here.

"{{{{{Welcome}}}}}" wrote in message
. uk...

Thus spaketh :

I've just bought a new 40" Samsung LCD TV.


Any TV, of any technology, that is *larger* than your previous one will show
up more clearly than your previous one any blemish or defect in the signal
being fed to it.

On setting it up, I
discovered the quality of the picture is pretty bad. Vertical lines
across the entire picture, blurry edges to figures on the TV and a
kind of pixellated effect that all adds up to a pretty poor quality
picture. I asked in the shop, and they said it was probably a bad
quality scart lead, so I bought a top-quality new one - but no
difference.

When watching a DVD, it's fine


That's the key here, it demonstrates that the TV is fundamentally sound.

- it's just the picture that's coming
from my standard Sky digital box. So I spoke to Sky about it and they
say I should upgrade to Sky+ or Sky HD as the signal from standard Sky
looks poor on large screens. Is this true?


I don't have $ky. I note that they would rather that you paid them more
money to get an acceptable picture than provide subscribers with an
acceptable quality picture in the first place. That is the sort of reason
why I don't have $ky.

What is the picture like from the $ky box when tuned to a FTA channel like
the BBC, especially when screening a flagship programme like 'Planet Earth'?
Is it any better? If so, then it's probably nearly all down to poor signal
quality, probably over compression, from $ky. If not, it may be that the
output of your $ky box and/or that input on the TV is set to Composite
rather than RGB, and/or that the $ky box or the TV is actually faulty on
that connection.

Or is this just them trying
to sell me something extra?


Very probably!

Having just blown all my savings on the
TV, the thought of spending an extra 300 on an HD box is terrifying.
Does anyone have any advice? Is there anything I can do to improve
picture quality?


You may find that turning all attempts at intelligence off in the TV's menus
may improve things. There seems to be some agreement between LCD owners
here that turning off all filters and processing by the TV helps.
Certainly, when setting up any TV, that is the basic setting to *start*
from. Then note the effect of adding in each 'feature', and decide whether
it's really an improvement.

And has anyone else experienced poor quality from
Sky after buying a large screen TV?


LCD do show up poor quality pictures


Yes, I have compared frozen pictures on both an LCD and a CRT of about the
same size, and certain types of blemish are more noticeable on the LCD than
the CRT - most particularly, the type of over-compression that results in
the scene breaking up into squares is much more noticeable when seascapes
are involved, while for some reason other scenes that commonly show such
break-up, such as flames, show less marked a difference between the two.

But, and I think this is an important point to grasp, I believe as a result
of these comparisons that this is because the LCD gives a better picture,
and therefore shows up any defects in the picture more clearly.

also LCD TVs aren't great either,
better off with a CRT TV.


That's just crap.

Snake Oil used to sell a scart lead that will make no difference to a
good quality fully screened 5 one.


Yes, I think the clue is in that brand name :-)

Most digital channels are highly compressed, so are only really good on
a small screen, CRT TVs are better able to cope with the low quality
picture.


.... but to my eyes are less good on a high quality picture.

At the moment Sky HD channels are no too compressed, so watching a HD
channel even on a non-HD screen will look better than a ropey SD
picture.

Many TVs have all types of digital processing, some CRTs with 100Hz, all
these need switching off and dropping to 50Hz when watching digital as
it just makes a worse mess.


Yes, I think most here would agree with that ...

You aren't going to get as crisp a picture from LCD as you do CRT


Rubbish.

My experience is that precisely the problem with LCDs is that the picture
being so crisp is the very reason it shows up certain defects more than a
CRT.

like CRT with LCDs there are differences between models


Yes, just run an eye along a dealer's shelves and the wide variation in
picture quality is obvious. I think when I bought mine more care tended to
be taken in the factory with LCDs to support the fat price tag; now that
prices are falling they are beginning to show a similar variation to CRTs.

whereas mostly
you can get away with a cheap CRT, with LCD you need to pay a decent
amount to get anywhere a good picture.


I think that in an average dealer there would probably still be more
variation in the picture quality from CRTs than with LCDs, which would
disprove this point, but it's a while since I went looking.

Mainly what you are seeing is a highly compressed digital broadcast
blown up added to the fact the LCD will be having to resample the
picture to fit its own resolution.


LCDs don't resample the picture.


  #10  
Old December 29th 06, 10:00 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
DML
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default LCD TV picture quality


wrote in message
ups.com...
I've just bought a new 40" Samsung LCD TV. On setting it up, I
discovered the quality of the picture is pretty bad.

What on earth did you waste your money on that for! Didn't you get chance
to see a real TV picture on it before you bought it? You would have run a
mile. Try watching a football match on LCD TVs, that is often amusing.
It's because of slow refresh rates. Some are up to 25mS which is
unacceptable.
You're the victim of two sales people so far, they must see you coming, so
don't give in to SKY aswell.


 




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