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Why two aerial connectors?



 
 
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  #1  
Old December 28th 06, 04:28 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Alan
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Posts: 927
Default Why two aerial connectors?

In message , Bob Latham
wrote
My mother-in-law lives in a flat (sheltered accommodation) and until
recently she had 1 aerial outlet plate with one aerial socket (female) as
is most common. Due to them not having Sky I purchased the new top up TV
box for her and went along to install it.

In the recent past, a freeview box worked well and got all the muxes
albeit with occasional break up on the mux that carries Sky. However
someone has been into the flats and provided a new outlet plate with an
F-connector presumably for Sky and two aerial out lets, 1 male, 1 female.

Whoever did this, connected her equipment to the male socket via an
adaptor and now two muxes have disappeared.

Does anyone have any idea why two aerial connectors? If it helps, the
flats are in Wombourne Staffordshire and are served (I suspect) by the
Wreakin transmitter.


One will be for FM/DAB radio. You will not get a TV signal out of it.

--
Alan
news2006 {at} amac {dot} f2s {dot} com
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  #2  
Old December 28th 06, 04:32 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Alan
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Posts: 927
Default Why two aerial connectors?

In message , Alan
wrote

One will be for FM/DAB radio. You will not get a TV signal out of it.


BTW, there doesn't seem to be a standard as to which is the male or
female for TV/FM. I have Diplexer face plates from two manufacturers
one has a male connector for TV and the other a female connector for the
TV.
--
Alan
news2006 {at} amac {dot} f2s {dot} com

  #3  
Old December 28th 06, 09:39 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Marky P
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Posts: 1,971
Default Why two aerial connectors?

On Thu, 28 Dec 2006 17:32:35 +0000, Alan
wrote:

In message , Alan
wrote

One will be for FM/DAB radio. You will not get a TV signal out of it.


BTW, there doesn't seem to be a standard as to which is the male or
female for TV/FM. I have Diplexer face plates from two manufacturers
one has a male connector for TV and the other a female connector for the
TV.


Try each of the sockets in turn. Also, there may be some signal loss
due to the diplexing process, which is a bugger, as I can't think of
an answer for that, except to complain vigorously.

Marky P

  #4  
Old December 29th 06, 10:48 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Andy Wade
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Posts: 442
Default Why two aerial connectors?

Alan wrote:
BTW, there doesn't seem to be a standard as to which is the male or
female for TV/FM.


There certainly is a standard:
- for TV, outputs are male and inputs are female;
- for radio, outputs are female and inputs are male.

FWIW this is in EN 50083. If everything adhered to the standard, only
male-female flyleads would be needed. In practice of course not
everything does, and in any case the standard can't be applied to
connectors handling multiple frequency bands.

I have Diplexer face plates from two manufacturers one has a male
connector for TV and the other a female connector for the TV.


The latter of those is just wrong. Which manufacturer, OOI?

--
Andy
  #5  
Old December 29th 06, 01:16 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Alan
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Posts: 927
Default Why two aerial connectors?

In message , Andy Wade
wrote
Alan wrote:
BTW, there doesn't seem to be a standard as to which is the male or
female for TV/FM.


There certainly is a standard:
- for TV, outputs are male and inputs are female;
- for radio, outputs are female and inputs are male.


My Triax branded fully screened diplexer face-plate conforms to the
above.

I have Diplexer face plates from two manufacturers one has a male
connector for TV and the other a female connector for the TV.


The latter of those is just wrong. Which manufacturer, OOI?



A diplexer from an unknown manufacturer, circa 5 years old , has female
connectors for both FM and TV.

If you look at the pictures for any of the diplexers/triplexers from
Maplin you will see female for both TV and FM.


If the OP had a fly-lead that previously fitted into a female socket and
the face-plate has since been changed for one that has a male connector
for the TV his existing fly-lead is possibly plugged into the FM/DAB
radio output. Unfortunately the legend on some face-plates is raised
white lettering on a white background so it may not be too obvious what
each connector is for.


--
Alan
news2006 {at} amac {dot} f2s {dot} com


  #6  
Old December 29th 06, 02:23 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Bill Wright
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Posts: 8,408
Default Why two aerial connectors?


"Andy Wade" wrote in message
...
Alan wrote:
BTW, there doesn't seem to be a standard as to which is the male or
female for TV/FM.


There certainly is a standard:
- for TV, outputs are male and inputs are female;
- for radio, outputs are female and inputs are male.

FWIW this is in EN 50083. If everything adhered to the standard, only
male-female flyleads would be needed. In practice of course not
everything does, and in any case the standard can't be applied to
connectors handling multiple frequency bands.


In the UK we have used female Bellings for TV faceplates and surface outlets
for at least 55 years. I see no need to change now. If the imposition of
female connectors on faceplates for TV is the result of some sort of
European 'harmonisation' legislation, well, I would see that as yet another
reason for sticking with our time-honoured convention.

We use diplexed faceplates of all kinds. Some, unfortunately, have a male
for the TV connection. This results in a large number of call-outs because
people will always assume, quite understandably, that the female port is for
TV. This is despite our explanatory leaflets, incidentally.

In some cases by the way the second or third Belling provides a return feed
to the bedroom(s).

Bill


  #7  
Old December 29th 06, 04:45 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Adrian A
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Posts: 1,150
Default Why two aerial connectors?

Bill Wright wrote:
"Andy Wade" wrote in message
...
Alan wrote:
BTW, there doesn't seem to be a standard as to which is the male or
female for TV/FM.


There certainly is a standard:
- for TV, outputs are male and inputs are female;
- for radio, outputs are female and inputs are male.

FWIW this is in EN 50083. If everything adhered to the standard,
only male-female flyleads would be needed. In practice of course not
everything does, and in any case the standard can't be applied to
connectors handling multiple frequency bands.


In the UK we have used female Bellings for TV faceplates and surface
outlets for at least 55 years. I see no need to change now. If the
imposition of female connectors on faceplates for TV is the result of
some sort of European 'harmonisation' legislation, well, I would see
that as yet another reason for sticking with our time-honoured
convention.

We use diplexed faceplates of all kinds. Some, unfortunately, have a
male for the TV connection. This results in a large number of
call-outs because people will always assume, quite understandably,
that the female port is for TV. This is despite our explanatory
leaflets, incidentally.

In some cases by the way the second or third Belling provides a
return feed to the bedroom(s).

Bill


I would have thought if they were going to change things it would have been
better to use 'F' connectors.


  #8  
Old December 29th 06, 05:19 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Bill Wright
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8,408
Default Why two aerial connectors?


"Adrian A" wrote in message
om...
Bill Wright wrote:

I would have thought if they were going to change things it would have
been
better to use 'F' connectors.

Yes, but we also have problems with people who don't read the instructions
regarding 'f' connectors which are in use for return feeds. This happens
sometimes when the owner specifies a 'special finish' plate and we have to
actually make the plates from blanks.

Personally I'd have 'f' types for every connector. As you imply these are
inherently better, and at least if all the connectors were the same the daft
buggers would have to pause for thought. Or would they?

http://www.wrightsaerials.tv/reference/0606.pdf
might be of interest with regard to this discussion.

Bill


  #9  
Old December 30th 06, 12:40 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Andy Wade
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Posts: 442
Default Why two aerial connectors?

Bill Wright wrote:
If the imposition of female connectors on faceplates for TV is the
result of some sort of European 'harmonisation' legislation, well, I
would see that as yet another reason for sticking with our
time-honoured convention.


Well the current situation is a mess, really. Once upon a time all the
fixed connectors were female, and all flyleads were male-male. Then
along came VCRs and set-top boxes with male connectors on their
loop-thro' outputs. These were made for markets wider than the UK alone
and followed the convention that had become established in parts of
Europe: male TV outlets. Then the input connectors on some FM tuners
and receivers changed to male. There seemed to be an inevitable trend
to a new order which, if it had been followed through to a conclusion,
would eventually have made things easier for the non-technical user.

We use diplexed faceplates of all kinds. Some, unfortunately, have a male
for the TV connection. This results in a large number of call-outs because
people will always assume, quite understandably, that the female port is for
TV.


Surely all the screened diplexed and triplexed outlets from the
mainstream manufacturers are that way round (TV: male, radio: female,
satellite: F)? It's in line with the new way and if people are given a
chance to get used to it, it ought to be simpler: all flyleads would be
male-female and problems due to wrong connections would become rarer.
Return feed sockets, being TV /inputs/ are generally "right" - i.e. female.

The trouble is the millions of existing single TV outlets and
older-style unscreened TV-FM plates, together with the fact that the
installation industry has shown no enthusiasm to adopt male as the sex
of choice for single outlets (given that most of them will be used for
TV). So I think the mess will continue for a long time yet, and clear
labelling of outlets is the best thing you can do to avoid problems.
Legislation to force a change to come in line with mainstream European
practice here might actually be a good thing, but there isn't any.

Technically a change to Type-F for everything would make a lot of sense,
as it's a much better connector from almost every point of view, but I
can't see it happening on consumer TV equipment for a long time yet or
even ever. But you never know. Over the last few years almost all
distribution equipment for use behind the outlet plate has gone over to
F-type, regardless of frequency band, with no great drama at all.

--
Andy
  #10  
Old December 30th 06, 02:04 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Bill Wright
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8,408
Default Why two aerial connectors?


"Andy Wade" wrote in message
...
We use diplexed faceplates of all kinds. Some, unfortunately, have a male
for the TV connection. This results in a large number of call-outs
because people will always assume, quite understandably, that the female
port is for TV.


Surely all the screened diplexed and triplexed outlets from the mainstream
manufacturers are that way round (TV: male, radio: female, satellite: F)?

No they aren't. At the moment Vision are doing both variations, although I
think this is because they are changing to the foreign way.

It's in line with the new way and if people are given a
chance to get used to it,

But why SHOULD people have to get used to it? It's change for change's sake.
I can't believe the necessary uniformity for it to be worthwhile will ever
arrive.

The trouble is the millions of existing single TV outlets and older-style
unscreened TV-FM plates, together with the fact that the installation
industry has shown no enthusiasm to adopt male as the sex of choice for
single outlets (given that most of them will be used for TV). So I think
the mess will continue for a long time yet, and clear labelling of outlets
is the best thing you can do to avoid problems. Legislation to force a
change to come in line with mainstream European practice here might
actually be a good thing, but there isn't any.

No and we don't want it either. Legislation about TV outlets! Good grief!
Don't you think we've got enough idiotic unenforcible unneccessary prodnose
laws? The only justification would be if it led to full uniformity, but we
all know that can't happen. TV wallplates last for 30 years. By 2036 the
whole thing will no doubt have been superceded by who knows what. If you
have a law about this you might just as well have a law saying . . . Oh God,
every example of an incredibly stupid bit of comparible legislation I can
think of is already in force!

Bill


 




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