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uk.tech.tv.sky (Sky Television) (uk.tech.tv.sky ) Technical issues of Sky television.

How do sky block cancelled subscriptions?



 
 
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  #1  
Old February 24th 06, 01:32 PM posted to uk.tech.tv.sky
Michael
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Posts: 2
Default How do sky block cancelled subscriptions?

I have been wondering how sky block your card once you cancel.

I guess they send a cancel signal, but what about if you leave the box
turned off for a month, would it then miss the cancel signal and then carry
on working?


Regards
Michael


  #2  
Old February 24th 06, 02:03 PM posted to uk.tech.tv.sky
Norbertina Trollop
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Posts: 1
Default How do sky block cancelled subscriptions?

Michael wrote:
I have been wondering how sky block your card once you cancel.

I guess they send a cancel signal, but what about if you leave the box
turned off for a month, would it then miss the cancel signal and then carry
on working?


Regards
Michael



Totally wrong. The card needs refresh signals about every six weeks. If
you cancel then they simply stop sending the signal to YOUR card. If you
leave the card out of the box for six seeks, the tiers (rights) won't be
refreshed and the card will be useless.
Tina.
  #3  
Old February 24th 06, 02:49 PM posted to uk.tech.tv.sky
Michael
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Posts: 2
Default How do sky block cancelled subscriptions?

That sounds feasible, but a friend of mine purchased a card off eBay in
December and is still receiving pay to view channels.

How's that happened?

Regards
Michael


"Norbertina Trollop" wrote in message
...
Michael wrote:
I have been wondering how sky block your card once you cancel.

I guess they send a cancel signal, but what about if you leave the box
turned off for a month, would it then miss the cancel signal and then

carry
on working?


Regards
Michael



Totally wrong. The card needs refresh signals about every six weeks. If
you cancel then they simply stop sending the signal to YOUR card. If you
leave the card out of the box for six seeks, the tiers (rights) won't be
refreshed and the card will be useless.
Tina.



  #4  
Old February 24th 06, 03:02 PM posted to uk.tech.tv.sky
Brian McIlwrath
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Posts: 783
Default How do sky block cancelled subscriptions?

Michael michael.groves@-i hate spam-valuelink.co.uk wrote:
: That sounds feasible, but a friend of mine purchased a card off eBay in
: December and is still receiving pay to view channels.

: How's that happened?

Because Sky don't stop sending encryption update signals to a cancelled card!
It turns into a FTV card for C4 and C5. It may need a few hours to receive
the update signals for this if it has not been used for a while.

In answer to the OP they also never used to stop sending tier update signals
(eg. cancel movies) either!! While any unused card is waiting to have its
decryption updated it will presumably pick up these updates as well.
  #5  
Old February 25th 06, 03:23 PM posted to uk.tech.tv.sky
John Porcella
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Posts: 1,632
Default How do sky block cancelled subscriptions?


"Michael" michael.groves@-I hate spam-valuelink.co.uk wrote in message
...
I have been wondering how sky block your card once you cancel.

I guess they send a cancel signal, but what about if you leave the box
turned off for a month, would it then miss the cancel signal and then

carry
on working?


Could it not be the other way around? Perhaps no cards work unless they
have received a specific signal to do so. If that signal is absent, which
it would be when Sky D turn off the subscription, then the card would not
work the next time it is expecting permission to view signals.


--
MESSAGE ENDS.
John Porcella


  #6  
Old February 25th 06, 03:24 PM posted to uk.tech.tv.sky
John Porcella
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Posts: 1,632
Default How do sky block cancelled subscriptions?


"Michael" michael.groves@-I hate spam-valuelink.co.uk wrote in message
...
That sounds feasible, but a friend of mine purchased a card off eBay in
December and is still receiving pay to view channels.

How's that happened?

Regards
Michael


Somebody is still paying subs.

Alternatively, somebody has hacked the card, though I severely doubt it.

--
MESSAGE ENDS.
John Porcella


  #7  
Old February 26th 06, 04:15 AM posted to uk.tech.tv.sky
The Wizard
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Posts: 243
Default How do sky block cancelled subscriptions?


"John Porcella" wrote in message
...

"Michael" michael.groves@-I hate spam-valuelink.co.uk wrote in message
...
That sounds feasible, but a friend of mine purchased a card off eBay in
December and is still receiving pay to view channels.

How's that happened?

Regards
Michael


Somebody is still paying subs.

Alternatively, somebody has hacked the card, though I severely doubt it.


Shhhh!, You'll have poor,poor Sky thinking people are watching their crud
for free and start sending out new cards,followed by a subscription rise to
recoupe the costs!


  #8  
Old February 26th 06, 06:58 AM posted to uk.tech.tv.sky
Jomtien
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Posts: 6,814
Default How do sky block cancelled subscriptions?

John Porcella wrote:

Could it not be the other way around? Perhaps no cards work unless they
have received a specific signal to do so. If that signal is absent, which
it would be when Sky D turn off the subscription, then the card would not
work the next time it is expecting permission to view signals.


AFAIK that is how it works.
All cards seem to be addressed every few hours though cards can also
be individually addressed out of sequence to activate or de-activate
them. Anyone who has changed their box, card or sub at any time will
know that this normally happens within a period of 15 seconds to 4
hours and so I suspect that 4 hours is one full rotation of the card
addressing cycle, thus catching any card that has missed an individual
activation instruction.

I also suspect that current subscription cards are addressed more
often than FTV or cancelled subscription cards.

One wonders just how many cards can be addressed per hour?

--
Digibox problem? : A reboot solves 90% of these.
The Sky Digital FAQ: http://tinyurl.com/8vef5
UK TV overseas: http://tinyurl.com/6p73
BBC reception questions? ; http://www.astra2d.com/
Fed up with on-screen logos? : http://logofreetv.org/
----
Only the truth as I see it.
No monies return'd. ;-)
  #9  
Old February 26th 06, 02:15 PM posted to uk.tech.tv.sky
Remove _ for valid address
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Posts: 68
Default How do sky block cancelled subscriptions?

In article , Jomtien wrote:
AFAIK that is how it works.
All cards seem to be addressed every few hours though cards can also
be individually addressed out of sequence to activate or de-activate
them. Anyone who has changed their box, card or sub at any time will
know that this normally happens within a period of 15 seconds to 4
hours and so I suspect that 4 hours is one full rotation of the card
addressing cycle, thus catching any card that has missed an individual
activation instruction.

I also suspect that current subscription cards are addressed more
often than FTV or cancelled subscription cards.

One wonders just how many cards can be addressed per hour?


For version 1 cards, it worked like this:

The EMM transmission continually cycled through all cards within the issued
range, separately for each channel entitlement. Each EMM packet contained
a 256-bit bitmap, so covered 256 cards. The card serial range had reached
00000000 - 00A0A2FF when they switched to version 2 cards, so there are
A0A3 packets to loop through. (This is just over 10 million cards.)

The packet contained the entitlement number (e.g. "SkySports1"), and
an expiry date. If the bit for your card was '1', you got this entitlement
valid up to this date. So if no further EMMs were received, you could view
up to this date and no further (ECMs are timestamped, so the card knows
the current date securely if it is decoding anything). The expiry date was
typically set 4-8 weeks ahead, and jumped up every few days. If the bit was
'0', it deleted your entitlement immediately! All packets were digitally
signed, so you couldn't write your own.

When I measured it a long time ago, the EMM stream was 16KBytes/sec.
So with an EMM card packet of around 64 bytes, nearly a million packets can
be sent per hour, addressing 200Million cards an hour. This rate is of
course adjustable as needed.

As Jomtien says, there were also out-of-sequence entries multiplexed in.
A new subscriber received their chunk of entitlements together, and
repeated very frequently for 24 hours or so. A just-cut-off subscriber had
theirs sent out quite frequently too.

Version 2 card EMM traffic is encrypted, so it's not possible to see
the contents in detail any more. One can still watch the clear card numbers
go by, though, in the EMM TS data, since the box has to filter by card
number to reduce the traffic down to a low enough level that it can be
sent over the ISO7816 card interface to the card. So you can measure how
long it takes to go round. It's PID 192 (C0) if it's still where it used
to be.

  #10  
Old February 26th 06, 10:20 PM posted to uk.tech.tv.sky
Rob
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Posts: 91
Default How do sky block cancelled subscriptions?

Very intereting reply.

Is there anywhere that I might find it a proper explanation of the Sky
system?

Obviously not giving enough detail so that the hackers can use it (although
the people in Israel seem to have managed to completely block that) but
enough to explain the system for those who can understand it.

Time for an investigator to get a job at Livingstone methinks!

--
Robert


 




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