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Does the BBC allocate HD to different areas ?



 
 
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  #1  
Old November 18th 17, 06:11 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Phi
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Posts: 288
Default Does the BBC allocate HD to different areas ?

I am streaming from the North East at the moment, but the picture looks
slightly blurred. I switched to London but still there was no HD available
there either, perhaps it was the low value of the programme.

  #2  
Old November 18th 17, 06:41 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
NY
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Posts: 1,232
Default Does the BBC allocate HD to different areas ?

"Phi" wrote in message
news
I am streaming from the North East at the moment, but the picture looks
slightly blurred. I switched to London but still there was no HD available
there either, perhaps it was the low value of the programme.


As I understand it, there is a single version of BBC HD for the whole of
England. During local news programmes, a caption is displayed on BBC1 HD
(LCN 101) referring people to BBC1 SD (LCN 1). Scotland and Wales each have
a regional variant which can show local news programmes (I'm not sure
whether there is a single region for the whole of Wales, and a single one
for the whole of Scotland).

For some reason, SD and HD versions of BBC1 are routed differently which
means that SD channels can show regional news but HD can't - and they can't
even show an SD version of BBC1 HD on LCN 101. What would be very useful is
if the DVB-T (Freeview) standard supported the concept of redirection and
temporary retuning of a receiver, so that signals could be sent which would
retune a TV/PVR from 101 (BBC1 HD) to 1 (BBC1 SD) for local news, and back
at the end - similar to the way that traffic news inserts retune you from
one station to a local one and back on RDS FM radio. But that hasn't been
designed into the spec.

  #3  
Old November 18th 17, 06:50 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Mark Carver
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Posts: 7,594
Default Does the BBC allocate HD to different areas ?

On 18/11/2017 18:41, NY wrote:

For some reason,


I've explained the reasons in here multiple times now !

redirection and temporary retuning of a receiver, so that signals could
be sent which would retune a TV/PVR from 101 (BBC1 HD) to 1 (BBC1 SD)
for local news, and back at the end - similar to the way that traffic
news inserts retune you from one station to a local one and back on RDS
FM radio. But that hasn't been designed into the spec.


Such functionality is available in the DVB specs, however in this
country we are obsessed about having 'clean and seamless' switching for
opt outs, which stream switching would not provide, so instead it seems
OK to manually initiate a crash/bang channel change with your remote
control, which is just as clunky as letting the receiver do it under
automated command.

Funny old life isn't it ?


--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.
  #4  
Old November 18th 17, 10:52 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Michael Chare[_5_]
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Posts: 54
Default Does the BBC allocate HD to different areas ?

On 18/11/2017 18:50, Mark Carver wrote:
On 18/11/2017 18:41, NY wrote:

For some reason,


I've explained the reasons in here multiple times now !

redirection and temporary retuning of a receiver, so that signals
could be sent which would retune a TV/PVR from 101 (BBC1 HD) to 1
(BBC1 SD) for local news, and back at the end - similar to the way
that traffic news inserts retune you from one station to a local one
and back on RDS FM radio. But that hasn't been designed into the spec.


Such functionality is available in the DVB specs, however in this
country we are obsessed about having 'clean and seamless' switching for
opt outs, which stream switching would not provide, so instead it seems
OK to manually initiate a crash/bang channel change with your remote
control, which is just as clunky as letting the receiver do it under
automated command.

Funny old life isn't it ?


Are the 3.1 million Welsh the smallest number of people who don't have
to change channel for local news because they have their own version of
BBC 1 HD?

--
Michael Chare
  #5  
Old November 19th 17, 12:03 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Peter Duncanson
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Posts: 4,230
Default Does the BBC allocate HD to different areas ?

On Sat, 18 Nov 2017 22:52:18 +0000, Michael Chare
wrote:

On 18/11/2017 18:50, Mark Carver wrote:
On 18/11/2017 18:41, NY wrote:

For some reason,


I've explained the reasons in here multiple times now !

redirection and temporary retuning of a receiver, so that signals
could be sent which would retune a TV/PVR from 101 (BBC1 HD) to 1
(BBC1 SD) for local news, and back at the end - similar to the way
that traffic news inserts retune you from one station to a local one
and back on RDS FM radio. But that hasn't been designed into the spec.


Such functionality is available in the DVB specs, however in this
country we are obsessed about having 'clean and seamless' switching for
opt outs, which stream switching would not provide, so instead it seems
OK to manually initiate a crash/bang channel change with your remote
control, which is just as clunky as letting the receiver do it under
automated command.

Funny old life isn't it ?


Are the 3.1 million Welsh the smallest number of people who don't have
to change channel for local news because they have their own version of
BBC 1 HD?


No. The 1.8 million Northern Irish have their own BBC 1 NI HD which has
local news and other local programmes.

--
Peter Duncanson
(in uk.tech.digital-tv)
  #6  
Old November 19th 17, 09:42 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Jim Lesurf[_2_]
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Posts: 4,228
Default Does the BBC allocate HD to different areas ?

In article , Phi wrote:
I am streaming from the North East at the moment, but the picture looks
slightly blurred. I switched to London but still there was no HD
available there either, perhaps it was the low value of the programme.


You say "streaming", so I assume you are fetching via the net, not picking
up DVB broadcasts.

What 'provider' are you using for streaming?

If the BBC iPlayer via their website, then then what you will get depends
on your software and the rates your connection can support. It is ages
since I used a browser for this [1] but IIRC a right-click on the window
may pop up some info on what you are being given.

The iPlayer is 'adaptive'. That means it may try to send you the best HD,
but then drop the picture resolution, etc, if the connection or your
software seems to struggle.

Jim

[1] I just use get_iplayer to fetch the files. That way I can decide what
resolution, etc, I prefer for an item.

--
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Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa...o/electron.htm
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  #7  
Old November 19th 17, 03:41 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Andy Burns[_12_]
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Posts: 448
Default Does the BBC allocate HD to different areas ?

Jim Lesurf wrote:

You say "streaming", so I assume you are fetching via the net
IIRC a right-click on the window
may pop up some info on what you are being given.


Yes, that's right.

The iPlayer is 'adaptive'. That means it may try to send you the best HD,
but then drop the picture resolution, etc, if the connection or your
software seems to struggle.


Currently (and at other times I remember checking) the
BBC1/Parliament/ALBA/S4C streams are SD and
BBC2/CBBC/CBeebies/News24 streams are HD (I presume
FOUR would also be HD when it's on).

  #8  
Old November 19th 17, 03:43 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Andy Burns[_12_]
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Posts: 448
Default Does the BBC allocate HD to different areas ?

Andy Burns wrote:

streams are HD


That's when they're full-screen, when in a smaller window the res drops
to 960x540, but the bandwidth is 2.9Mbps
  #9  
Old November 20th 17, 03:43 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Johnny B Good[_2_]
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Posts: 459
Default Does the BBC allocate HD to different areas ?

On Sun, 19 Nov 2017 09:42:48 +0000, Jim Lesurf wrote:

In article , Phi wrote:
I am streaming from the North East at the moment, but the picture looks
slightly blurred. I switched to London but still there was no HD
available there either, perhaps it was the low value of the programme.


You say "streaming", so I assume you are fetching via the net, not
picking up DVB broadcasts.

What 'provider' are you using for streaming?

If the BBC iPlayer via their website, then then what you will get
depends on your software and the rates your connection can support. It
is ages since I used a browser for this [1] but IIRC a right-click on
the window may pop up some info on what you are being given.

The iPlayer is 'adaptive'. That means it may try to send you the best
HD, but then drop the picture resolution, etc, if the connection or your
software seems to struggle.

Jim

[1] I just use get_iplayer to fetch the files. That way I can decide
what resolution, etc, I prefer for an item.


I use get_iplayer to download in the *best available resolution by
default*, that's my choice even despite the iplayer server trying to fob
me off with sd1 (that arcane 960 by 540 ******* version of SD) when the
operators seem to have just phoned it in from the playout servers, often
with bad topping and tailing of the streams they nicked it from (in which
case, a repeat attempt a few hours later will usually get you a less
vandalised version, hd1 if you're lucky otherwise sd1 if you're not -
often with end credit vandalism included).

Some stuff is *never* going to be hd1 quality (1280 by 720) such as
Dad's Army episodes and other similar vintage material as "The Good Old
Days". However, that doesn't seem to stop the cowboys employed by the
Beeb's iPlayer concession stand from restricting material that had
previously been available from the iPlayer servers in hd1 to only sd1.
Sometimes this is the case if you try downloading too soon after the
programme has finished airing. A follow up download attempt anywhere from
a few hours to a few days later might finally result in an hd1 download
but it's not guaranteed.

One recent example of note was the broadcast of the BBC commissioned
(for BBC1) movie, "Mrs Brown" which no number of repeat attempts over the
following fortnight or so would produce the expected hd1 download, I gave
up on this a few nights ago and moved the original sd1 download into the
archive for later viewing. I find it hard to believe that a BBC Movie
would only be available in sd1. AFAICR, *all other* such BBC Movies, when
available for download from the iPlayer servers, have been available in
hd1 resolution. To my knowledge, after some two years of experience with
the Beeb's iPlayer concession stand, this is "A First".

Luckily, the less verbose downloading dialogue of the latest get_iplayer
version makes it easier to discern which of the two resolutions are being
downloaded so I can issue a CTRL C to terminate the unwanted sd1 download
within around 30 to 40 MB's worth of futility.

I've taken to keeping a text file to make note of such iPlayer
'naughtiness' called, appropriately enough, "The Naughty list" which
currently has the following two items:-

StartQuote/
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

20171031

The Lost Libraries of Timbuktu - -, BBC Four, b00hkb0z (960 by 540)


20171110

Storyville - How the Beatles Rocked the Kremlin, BBC Four, b00ml582 (sd1)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
EndQuote/

The first entry refers to an earlier hd1 download made in January, just
before I sorted out the ffmpeg issue wherein I was manually converting
the ts files into mkvs with Handbrake which produced files that were a
curious mix of larger or smaller than the ts file sizes.

In this case, the mkv is 982.6MiB which I suspect isn't too far off what
ffmpeg's mp4 would have been. However, using Handbrake to transcode must
degrade, even if imperceptibly, the ts file whilst I believe ffmpeg
merely converts the mp4 ts into an mp4 ps with no transcoding loss
(rather like MpegStreamClip does for converting ts mpegs into ps mpegs).

TBH, after careful scrutiny, the earlier hd1 doesn't have the expected
sharpness of a 1280 by 720 movie file, indeed there seems to be no
improvement in clarity between this hd1 version and the recent sd1
version. This leads me to suspect that the earlier hd1 was merely an
upscaled SD broadcast standard media file rather than being originated in
any form of "HD" standard format.

I don't think the loss of quality has anything whatsoever to do with
Handbrake's transcoding efforts, so I don't hold out much hope of it ever
being emitted by the iPlayer server in hd1 form any time soon.
Nevertheless, I'll keep on trying to download an hd1 version until it
expires on the iPlayer server at the end of the month.

I rather fancy that I may as well download the sd1 version to replace
the earlier hd1 file if an actual hd1 does not materialise since the
earlier hd1 looks no better than the recent sd1 so I might as well save
some disk space.

To that end, I've just downloaded the sd1 offering and parked it in the
"iPlaye FAILS!" folder alongside of the "Phone ins (end credit vandalism
etc.)" folder where The Naughty list.txt file lives, as a precautionary
measure against forgetting to take the final opportunity to retrieve the
file before it's finally expired off the iPlayer server.

Similarly, the Storyville download is, unusually for a Storyville
programme, unlikely to be made available as an hd1 download on account of
most of the archive material used being SD quality or worse. Again, I'll
keep trying my luck until this one also expires - you just never know.

--
Johnny B Good
  #10  
Old November 30th 17, 08:57 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Graham.[_12_]
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Posts: 422
Default Does the BBC allocate HD to different areas ?

On Sat, 18 Nov 2017 18:11:13 -0000, "Phi"
coalesced the vapors of human experience into a viable and meaningful
comprehension...

I am streaming from the North East at the moment, but the picture looks
slightly blurred. I switched to London but still there was no HD available
there either, perhaps it was the low value of the programme.


I bought 50m of Webro WF100 (Ebay listing 361680982728) on Monday for
27.68 including delivery, and it arrived yesterday.

It was supposed to have five F connectors included but they only sent
two, not that I will be complaining about that.

--

Graham.
%Profound_observation%
 




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