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bbc inacuracies



 
 
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  #41  
Old September 26th 17, 08:44 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Vir Campestris
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Default bbc inacuracies

On 17/09/2017 15:21, Phi wrote:
Methane has a residence time of 12 years in the atmoshere with a warming
coefficient of 21 times that of CO2 at 5 years residence.


Source?

I thought the problem with CO2 is that it's building up. We're putting
more in than the plants can absorb. So the residence time doesn't make
sense - it's not going away.

Andy
  #42  
Old September 26th 17, 10:35 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Java Jive[_2_]
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Posts: 1,702
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On Tue, 26 Sep 2017 20:44:39 +0100, Vir Campestris
wrote:

On 17/09/2017 15:21, Phi wrote:
Methane has a residence time of 12 years in the atmoshere with a warming
coefficient of 21 times that of CO2 at 5 years residence.


Source?


While in general I'm in favour of quoting sources when scientific
facts are given, in this instance, why don't you google it?

I thought the problem with CO2 is that it's building up. We're putting
more in than the plants can absorb. So the residence time doesn't make
sense - it's not going away.


AFAICR, almost everything in the atmosphere is eventually recycled -
molecules get absorbed into raindrops and washed out of the
atmosphere, the chemical bonds of molecular compounds get broken up by
sunlight and the components are used to form other compounds, etc.
From memory, I'm not going to look up stuff for you that you can very
easily look up yourself, the most stable major component is nitrogen
in the form of N2.

In particular, atmospheric C02 is part of the wider planetary carbon
cycle. Look this up and find, doubtless, lots of pretty pictures such
as I recall from my degree textbooks. Doubtless there is a similar
recycling of methane, but I'm less aware of the details.

So it is all a question of lifetimes. The problem is that.
particularly since the industrial revolution, we have been and still
are emitting carbon dioxide into the atmosphere faster than natural
processes can recycle it.

Phi's point about methane is also very pertinent. It too is a strong
greenhouse gas. Besides ongoing emissions - natural and from human
waste and rubbish, livestock, etc - it's particular relevance is
that there are reserves of it locked into places like the bottom of
the sea - whence, if the temperature of the sea floor is allowed to
rise there may be a sudden, by geological standards, outwelling of it
- and in the arctic tundra - with the gradual melting of which,
already you can actually collect it bubbling out of various places.
Thus, like water vapour, methane may serve vastly to amplify the
warming we are causing by releasing CO2, but it hangs around for a
considerably longer time than water vapour, so its potential effect is
proportionately more serious.
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Please always reply to ng as the email in this post's
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  #43  
Old October 1st 17, 09:32 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Vir Campestris
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Posts: 409
Default bbc inacuracies

On 26/09/2017 22:35, Java Jive wrote:
On Tue, 26 Sep 2017 20:44:39 +0100, Vir Campestris
wrote:

On 17/09/2017 15:21, Phi wrote:
Methane has a residence time of 12 years in the atmoshere with a warming
coefficient of 21 times that of CO2 at 5 years residence.


Source?


While in general I'm in favour of quoting sources when scientific
facts are given, in this instance, why don't you google it?

I thought the problem with CO2 is that it's building up. We're putting
more in than the plants can absorb. So the residence time doesn't make
sense - it's not going away.


AFAICR, almost everything in the atmosphere is eventually recycled -
molecules get absorbed into raindrops and washed out of the
atmosphere, the chemical bonds of molecular compounds get broken up by
sunlight and the components are used to form other compounds, etc.
From memory, I'm not going to look up stuff for you that you can very
easily look up yourself, the most stable major component is nitrogen
in the form of N2.

He's suggesting that CO2 has a 'half life' the way methane does -
methane doesn't hang around because it tends to react with oxygen. I do
not think this is the case, which is why I asked for the source. I'm
prepared to be proved wrong.

In particular, atmospheric C02 is part of the wider planetary carbon
cycle. Look this up and find, doubtless, lots of pretty pictures such
as I recall from my degree textbooks. Doubtless there is a similar
recycling of methane, but I'm less aware of the details.

So it is all a question of lifetimes. The problem is that.
particularly since the industrial revolution, we have been and still
are emitting carbon dioxide into the atmosphere faster than natural
processes can recycle it.

Phi's point about methane is also very pertinent. It too is a strong
greenhouse gas. Besides ongoing emissions - natural and from human
waste and rubbish, livestock, etc - it's particular relevance is
that there are reserves of it locked into places like the bottom of
the sea - whence, if the temperature of the sea floor is allowed to
rise there may be a sudden, by geological standards, outwelling of it
- and in the arctic tundra - with the gradual melting of which,
already you can actually collect it bubbling out of various places.
Thus, like water vapour, methane may serve vastly to amplify the
warming we are causing by releasing CO2, but it hangs around for a
considerably longer time than water vapour, so its potential effect is
proportionately more serious.

If you want to be scared look at
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clathrate_hydrate

Andy
  #44  
Old October 2nd 17, 01:41 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Java Jive[_2_]
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Posts: 1,702
Default bbc inacuracies

On Sun, 1 Oct 2017 21:32:30 +0100, Vir Campestris
wrote:

On 26/09/2017 22:35, Java Jive wrote:
On Tue, 26 Sep 2017 20:44:39 +0100, Vir Campestris
wrote:

On 17/09/2017 15:21, Phi wrote:
Methane has a residence time of 12 years in the atmoshere with a warming
coefficient of 21 times that of CO2 at 5 years residence.


He's suggesting that CO2 has a 'half life' the way methane does -
methane doesn't hang around because it tends to react with oxygen. I do
not think this is the case, which is why I asked for the source. I'm
prepared to be proved wrong.


I'm unclear from the above paragraph, what part of it you think Phi is
claiming, and what part of it you are claiming, but I'm quite prepared
to let you and he slug it out, if you are both up for it. However, as
a bystander, it seems to me that you must have misread his post, which
I've requoted above. As you can see, it was very short, and therefore
not easy to misread, and neither the phrase 'half-life' nor the word
'oxygen' occur in it. As I see it, he is just giving relevant data,
lifetimes and warming coefficients, without any attempt at
interpretation, presumably because he believes the facts speak for
themselves, which I would agree with.
--
================================================== ======
Please always reply to ng as the email in this post's
header does not exist. Or use a contact address at:
http://www.macfh.co.uk/JavaJive/JavaJive.html
http://www.macfh.co.uk/Macfarlane/Macfarlane.html
 




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