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Horizon 2017: Strange Signals from Outer Space



 
 
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  #51  
Old July 10th 17, 10:43 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
tim...[_2_]
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Default Horizon 2017: Strange Signals from Outer Space



"Roderick Stewart" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 10 Jul 2017 09:25:56 +0100, "tim..."
wrote:

Why is life so important to you? Why should one arrangement of molecules
matter more than another?

I suppose it feels important to me because I *am* a sentient
arrangement of molecules. It's natural for life to try to preserve
life, usually either its own or that of its offspring or other
relatives, and sometimes even at the expense of its own.


But the problem with this philosophy, is that there is one hell of a lot
of
living entities in the chain before you get to the one that intelligent
enough to engage in inter-stellar communications.

so how does waiting for the one that can, help you here?


Discovering that life had appeared spontaneously and independently
elsewhere (assuming it actually has),


I think that we already "know" that it has

it is whether it has progressed to intelligent form that is unknown.

But even if we do find out the latter, I don't see how, without further
information, we can use that to validate our "explanation" of evolution (and
I don't just mean in terms of species variation I also mean in terms of how
we now believe the atmosphere on earth evolved to sustain life).

no matter how we discovered it,
would at the very least give us a better understanding of the universe
we live in.


What, that one little factoid?

I think your expectation is extraordinary.

I suppose our emotional reaction to it would vary from
person to person, but I'd be surprised if most of us didn't find it
the most uplifting thing we'd ever been told.


perhaps.

It would give us hope
that when life ends here, it isn't the end of everything,


It proves nothing of the sort

and that
something meaningful and capable of understanding meaning would
continue somewhere.


ditto

You are of course free to react to this in your
own way, but if you have to ask what's the point of searching for
extraterrestrial life, you may as well ask what's the point of seeking
any knowledge at all.


but that isn't the task that I set

I asked what useful purpose can knowing this answer, achieve?

Seeking other types of knowledge has practical uses. This one IMHO does
not.

I need to be convinced otherwise.

tim



  #52  
Old July 10th 17, 01:51 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Norman Wells[_6_]
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Default Horizon 2017: Strange Signals from Outer Space

On 10/07/2017 11:43, tim... wrote:

You are of course free to react to this in your
own way, but if you have to ask what's the point of searching for
extraterrestrial life, you may as well ask what's the point of seeking
any knowledge at all.


but that isn't the task that I set

I asked what useful purpose can knowing this answer, achieve?


It depends what they're transmitting and whether we can decode it. If
they're that advanced, they won't just be transmitting a station
identifier like Lilyburlero, will they? I'd expect something useful.
  #53  
Old July 10th 17, 02:38 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Roderick Stewart[_3_]
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Default Horizon 2017: Strange Signals from Outer Space

On Mon, 10 Jul 2017 11:35:39 +0100, "tim..."
wrote:

If someone claims to have a musical or artistic (or even oenological)
appreciation that I don't share, well it *is* in the mind.


Unless their oenological appreciation can be demonstrated consistently
in double-blind tests of course...


there's a big difference between telling one from another

and claiming "this one tastes of oranges" when patently it does not


True, but the ability to identify the same ones consistently is
something that could be tested objectively.

Rod.
  #54  
Old July 10th 17, 02:53 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Roderick Stewart[_3_]
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Default Horizon 2017: Strange Signals from Outer Space

On Mon, 10 Jul 2017 11:43:34 +0100, "tim..."
wrote:

Discovering that life had appeared spontaneously and independently
elsewhere (assuming it actually has),


I think that we already "know" that it has

it is whether it has progressed to intelligent form that is unknown.


We don't know it at all. Anybody who says otherwise is not employing
reasoning based on evidence, but wishful thinking. I guess scientists
are human too.

We know the conditions necessary to *support* life as we know it, but
what we don't know is what conditions are necessary to start it off,
as we only know of one planet where this has actually happened. That's
not enough to say anything about the probability of it happening
anywhere else. We'll need some actual discoveries, not speculation,
before we can say anything real about that.

Rod.
  #55  
Old July 10th 17, 05:36 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
tim...[_2_]
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Posts: 417
Default Horizon 2017: Strange Signals from Outer Space



"Roderick Stewart" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 10 Jul 2017 11:43:34 +0100, "tim..."
wrote:

Discovering that life had appeared spontaneously and independently
elsewhere (assuming it actually has),


I think that we already "know" that it has

it is whether it has progressed to intelligent form that is unknown.


We don't know it at all.


I thought we had evidence that there has been past microscopic life on
celestial bodies that we have analyzed samples from, from an era when these
bodies had an atmosphere.

my mistake

tim



  #56  
Old July 11th 17, 03:47 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Bill Wright[_3_]
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Posts: 1,719
Default Horizon 2017: Strange Signals from Outer Space

On 10/07/2017 11:03, Roderick Stewart wrote:

Discovering that life had appeared spontaneously and independently
elsewhere (assuming it actually has), no matter how we discovered it,
would at the very least give us a better understanding of the universe
we live in. I suppose our emotional reaction to it would vary from
person to person, but I'd be surprised if most of us didn't find it
the most uplifting thing we'd ever been told.


Actually I don't give a ****.

It would give us hope
that when life ends here, it isn't the end of everything, and that
something meaningful and capable of understanding meaning would
continue somewhere.


No, I really don't give a ****.

Bill
  #57  
Old July 11th 17, 04:02 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Bill Wright[_3_]
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Posts: 1,719
Default Horizon 2017: Strange Signals from Outer Space

On 10/07/2017 15:53, Roderick Stewart wrote:

We don't know it at all. Anybody who says otherwise is not employing
reasoning based on evidence, but wishful thinking. I guess scientists
are human too.


Course they are. That's why so many learned papers are ******** and why
so many of them pretend to believe in global warming.

Like everybody else they know which side their bread's buttered, and
they have mortgages and kids.

Bill
  #58  
Old July 11th 17, 10:20 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Roderick Stewart[_3_]
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Posts: 2,040
Default Horizon 2017: Strange Signals from Outer Space

On Tue, 11 Jul 2017 04:47:51 +0100, Bill Wright
wrote:


Discovering that life had appeared spontaneously and independently
elsewhere (assuming it actually has), no matter how we discovered it,
would at the very least give us a better understanding of the universe
we live in. I suppose our emotional reaction to it would vary from
person to person, but I'd be surprised if most of us didn't find it
the most uplifting thing we'd ever been told.


Actually I don't give a ****.

It would give us hope
that when life ends here, it isn't the end of everything, and that
something meaningful and capable of understanding meaning would
continue somewhere.


No, I really don't give a ****.


Then I'm sorry for you. I hope you feel that everything you've got out
of life has been worthwhile, even without the hope of anything more.

Even after you've gone, life will carry on without you, including
anything you did or said that affected others. In your case, that
would include a website full of technical advice, various things
you've written for magazines, lots of amusing thoughts you've shared
with us here, and of course anything your nearest and dearest will
remember about you and maybe pass on as anecdotes to their own
offspring and friends. Your life, as experienced by you, will one day
be over, but it won't have been meaningless. Something of it will
remain in real practical terms. You will have made a difference.
Doesn't that cheer you up, even a little bit?

Rod.
  #59  
Old July 11th 17, 11:36 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Bill Wright[_3_]
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Posts: 1,719
Default Horizon 2017: Strange Signals from Outer Space

On 11/07/2017 10:58, Huge wrote:

That's because you have the intellect of a dried dog turd.



Are you a professional poet or just a keen amateur?

Bill
  #60  
Old July 11th 17, 11:52 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Bill Wright[_3_]
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Posts: 1,719
Default Horizon 2017: Strange Signals from Outer Space

On 11/07/2017 11:20, Roderick Stewart wrote:

No, I really don't give a ****.


Then I'm sorry for you.


I don't give a **** that you're sorry for me.

I hope you feel that everything you've got out
of life has been worthwhile, even without the hope of anything more.


Without considering too deeply what you mean by worthwhile, I guess
about 1% of what we do is 'worthwhile'. The rest is just futile.

Even after you've gone, life will carry on without you, including
anything you did or said that affected others. In your case, that
would include a website full of technical advice, various things
you've written for magazines, lots of amusing thoughts you've shared
with us here, and of course anything your nearest and dearest will
remember about you and maybe pass on as anecdotes to their own
offspring and friends. Your life, as experienced by you, will one day
be over, but it won't have been meaningless. Something of it will
remain in real practical terms. You will have made a difference.
Doesn't that cheer you up, even a little bit?


No it doesn't. When I'm dead I'm dead.

Bill
 




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