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Horizon 2017: Strange Signals from Outer Space



 
 
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  #41  
Old July 9th 17, 07:11 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Roderick Stewart[_3_]
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Posts: 2,091
Default Horizon 2017: Strange Signals from Outer Space

On Sun, 09 Jul 2017 12:02:54 +0100, Indy Jess John
wrote:

We can only note that
there are rare second-hand reports of things we can't explain,


Never mind the second hand reports, there are plenty of first hand
reports of things that are all too easy to explain in terms of the
perceptions, preconceived beliefs, ignorance, lack of sobriety or
downright dishonesty of the people telling us about them.

and we
can choose whether or not to have faith that such things might be possible.


When the alternatives on offer are common human failings and the known
laws of physics, it's a fairly easy choice to make.

Rod.
  #42  
Old July 9th 17, 07:15 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Max Demian
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Default Horizon 2017: Strange Signals from Outer Space

On 09/07/2017 12:02, Indy Jess John wrote:
On 08/07/2017 19:27, Max Demian wrote:

We can say there's no *evidence* for the truth of religious concepts - a
personal God, a detachable soul (including survival of the self after
death), objective morality and the rest - and why should we believe in
something for which there is no evidence?

We can't *disprove* such things, in the sense that we can't *disprove*
the existence of invisible fairies at the bottom of the garden.

A while ago I read a thought experiment.

Mr 2-dimension is happy in his 2-dimensional world. He can look around,
he can travel from A to B. Everything looks normal to him.

Enter Mr 3-dimensions who picks up an object from one side of Mr
2-dimension's room and puts it down on the other side. To Mr
2-dimensions, the object disappeared before his eyes and reappeared
somewhere else. He knows it happened because he saw it, but he won't be
able to convince other inhabitants of the 2-dimensional world that it
did happen and therefore it is possible. The other inhabitants won't be
able to prove it wasn't possible either, only assert that it couldn't be.

What we can detect with our senses and our scientific instruments will
be limited by the environment we live in. We can never prove nor
disprove something we are not designed to detect. We can only note that
there are rare second-hand reports of things we can't explain, and we
can choose whether or not to have faith that such things might be possible.


If someone claims to have a religious experience it's a lot easier to
believe that it's in the person's mind rather than proving some
objective truth about the world.

If someone claims to have a musical or artistic (or even oenological)
appreciation that I don't share, well it *is* in the mind.

If a colour-blind person claims that colours don't exist, there are
filters that will at least demonstrate that there *is* an objective
difference, even if they can't see it.

--
Max Demian
  #43  
Old July 9th 17, 09:09 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Vir Campestris
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Posts: 382
Default Horizon 2017: Strange Signals from Outer Space

On 09/07/2017 20:11, Roderick Stewart wrote:
Never mind the second hand reports, there are plenty of first hand
reports of things that are all too easy to explain in terms of the
perceptions, preconceived beliefs, ignorance, lack of sobriety or
downright dishonesty of the people telling us about them.


https://xkcd.com/1235/
  #44  
Old July 9th 17, 09:10 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Vir Campestris
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Posts: 382
Default Horizon 2017: Strange Signals from Outer Space

On 08/07/2017 19:27, Max Demian wrote:
We can say there's no *evidence* for the truth of religious concepts - a
personal God, a detachable soul (including survival of the self after
death), objective morality and the rest - and why should we believe in
something for which there is no evidence?

We can't *disprove* such things, in the sense that we can't *disprove*
the existence of invisible fairies at the bottom of the garden.


I would say that there is a lot of evidence that mind is the result of
physical processes in the brain. You can alter the brain with injuries,
or chemicals and change the mind (usually for the worse) and I've had
the unpleasant experience of watching the disintegration of a
personality in line with the disintegration of the brain.

What I have seen leads me to believe there is no such thing as a soul.

I see no evidence for a god either - but ICBW on that. I do think it
doesn't really matter with no hell below us, nor heaven up above.

Andy
  #45  
Old July 10th 17, 08:25 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
tim...[_2_]
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Posts: 513
Default Horizon 2017: Strange Signals from Outer Space



"Roderick Stewart" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 9 Jul 2017 04:18:32 +0100, Bill Wright
wrote:

The human race and everything on this planet definitely will die out
eventually. I can't speak for everybody, but I find it a very
depressing thought


I don't see why. What does the human race matter? What does all life
matter? It only serves itself. When it's gone it's gone and the universe
will be no worse off.

that if we are unique then it would be the end of
everything when we go. I hope there's more life, somewhere, even if it
isn't us. We can't prove the existence of an "afterlife", but there is
a genuine possibility of discovering real life, if there is any.


Why is life so important to you? Why should one arrangement of molecules
matter more than another?


I suppose it feels important to me because I *am* a sentient
arrangement of molecules. It's natural for life to try to preserve
life, usually either its own or that of its offspring or other
relatives, and sometimes even at the expense of its own.


But the problem with this philosophy, is that there is one hell of a lot of
living entities in the chain before you get to the one that intelligent
enough to engage in inter-stellar communications.

so how does waiting for the one that can, help you here?

tim





  #46  
Old July 10th 17, 09:49 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Roderick Stewart[_3_]
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Posts: 2,091
Default Horizon 2017: Strange Signals from Outer Space

On Sun, 9 Jul 2017 20:15:01 +0100, Max Demian
wrote:

If someone claims to have a musical or artistic (or even oenological)
appreciation that I don't share, well it *is* in the mind.


Unless their oenological appreciation can be demonstrated consistently
in double-blind tests of course...

Otherwise, send them to Aldi.

Rod.
  #47  
Old July 10th 17, 10:03 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Roderick Stewart[_3_]
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Posts: 2,091
Default Horizon 2017: Strange Signals from Outer Space

On Mon, 10 Jul 2017 09:25:56 +0100, "tim..."
wrote:

Why is life so important to you? Why should one arrangement of molecules
matter more than another?


I suppose it feels important to me because I *am* a sentient
arrangement of molecules. It's natural for life to try to preserve
life, usually either its own or that of its offspring or other
relatives, and sometimes even at the expense of its own.


But the problem with this philosophy, is that there is one hell of a lot of
living entities in the chain before you get to the one that intelligent
enough to engage in inter-stellar communications.

so how does waiting for the one that can, help you here?


Discovering that life had appeared spontaneously and independently
elsewhere (assuming it actually has), no matter how we discovered it,
would at the very least give us a better understanding of the universe
we live in. I suppose our emotional reaction to it would vary from
person to person, but I'd be surprised if most of us didn't find it
the most uplifting thing we'd ever been told. It would give us hope
that when life ends here, it isn't the end of everything, and that
something meaningful and capable of understanding meaning would
continue somewhere. You are of course free to react to this in your
own way, but if you have to ask what's the point of searching for
extraterrestrial life, you may as well ask what's the point of seeking
any knowledge at all.

Rod.
  #48  
Old July 10th 17, 10:06 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Max Demian
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Posts: 3,781
Default Horizon 2017: Strange Signals from Outer Space

On 10/07/2017 10:49, Roderick Stewart wrote:
On Sun, 9 Jul 2017 20:15:01 +0100, Max Demian
wrote:

If someone claims to have a musical or artistic (or even oenological)
appreciation that I don't share, well it *is* in the mind.


Unless their oenological appreciation can be demonstrated consistently
in double-blind tests of course...


The double-blind still involves sense organs and the sensory cortex,
unless they've invented a wine tasting device.

--
Max Demian
  #49  
Old July 10th 17, 10:11 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Max Demian
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Posts: 3,781
Default Horizon 2017: Strange Signals from Outer Space

On 10/07/2017 11:03, Roderick Stewart wrote:
On Mon, 10 Jul 2017 09:25:56 +0100, "tim..."
wrote:

Why is life so important to you? Why should one arrangement of molecules
matter more than another?

I suppose it feels important to me because I *am* a sentient
arrangement of molecules. It's natural for life to try to preserve
life, usually either its own or that of its offspring or other
relatives, and sometimes even at the expense of its own.


But the problem with this philosophy, is that there is one hell of a lot of
living entities in the chain before you get to the one that intelligent
enough to engage in inter-stellar communications.

so how does waiting for the one that can, help you here?


Discovering that life had appeared spontaneously and independently
elsewhere (assuming it actually has), no matter how we discovered it,
would at the very least give us a better understanding of the universe
we live in. I suppose our emotional reaction to it would vary from
person to person, but I'd be surprised if most of us didn't find it
the most uplifting thing we'd ever been told.


Most people would just say, "So what," or get bored very soon, like with
the Moon programme.

--
Max Demian
  #50  
Old July 10th 17, 10:35 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
tim...[_2_]
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Posts: 513
Default Horizon 2017: Strange Signals from Outer Space



"Roderick Stewart" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 9 Jul 2017 20:15:01 +0100, Max Demian
wrote:

If someone claims to have a musical or artistic (or even oenological)
appreciation that I don't share, well it *is* in the mind.


Unless their oenological appreciation can be demonstrated consistently
in double-blind tests of course...


there's a big difference between telling one from another

and claiming "this one tastes of oranges" when patently it does not

tim



 




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