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uk.tech.digital-tv (Digital TV - General) (uk.tech.digital-tv) Discussion of all matters technical in origin related to the reception of digital television transmissions, be they via satellite, terrestrial or cable. Advertising is forbidden, with no exceptions.

TV system conversion



 
 
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  #21  
Old March 20th 17, 08:05 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Bill Taylor[_2_]
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Posts: 33
Default TV system conversion

On Mon, 20 Mar 2017 07:54:22 +0000, Roderick Stewart
wrote:


Does anyone know what "PAL" really stands for? All the books I've seen
give it as "Phase Alternation Line" or "Phase Alternation Linewise",
but I've always assumed that it must have been named in German and
the English translation contrived to keep the same initials, hence the
rather inelegant phrase that we've become used to. Perhaps the
original name is something neater in its own language?

Rod.


No, but Wikipedia has this mildly amusing story.

"When interviewed by German talk show host Hans Rosenthal on why he
had named it the "PAL system", Bruch replied that certainly no German
would want to have a "Bruch-System" had his family name been used as
the eponym; Bruch in German is synonymous with "broken"."

And it would seem quite logical that, as Telefunken were trying to get
the system widely adopted they should create an English name for it,
and PAL is a very good, friendly name, rather better than NTSC.
  #22  
Old March 20th 17, 09:00 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Mark Carver[_2_]
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Posts: 293
Default TV system conversion

On 20/03/2017 09:05, Bill Taylor wrote:

"When interviewed by German talk show host Hans Rosenthal on why he
had named it the "PAL system", Bruch replied that certainly no German
would want to have a "Bruch-System" had his family name been used as
the eponym; Bruch in German is synonymous with "broken"."


It didn't prevent the term Bruch Blanking though !

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=53nnX4fnnNIC&pg=PA289&lpg=PA289&dq=bruch+ blanking&source=bl&ots=1umP3dht5J&sig=BPccmfY8yhan h7wbZm9Bn_hsRhw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiyrqyL6OTSAh VpK8AKHfauBDgQ6AEIIzAC#v=onepage&q=bruch%20blankin g&f=false

--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.
  #23  
Old March 20th 17, 09:56 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Roderick Stewart[_3_]
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Posts: 2,040
Default TV system conversion

On Mon, 20 Mar 2017 09:05:37 +0000, Bill Taylor
wrote:


Does anyone know what "PAL" really stands for? All the books I've seen
give it as "Phase Alternation Line" or "Phase Alternation Linewise",
but I've always assumed that it must have been named in German and
the English translation contrived to keep the same initials, hence the
rather inelegant phrase that we've become used to. Perhaps the
original name is something neater in its own language?

Rod.


No, but Wikipedia has this mildly amusing story.

"When interviewed by German talk show host Hans Rosenthal on why he
had named it the "PAL system", Bruch replied that certainly no German
would want to have a "Bruch-System" had his family name been used as
the eponym; Bruch in German is synonymous with "broken"."

And it would seem quite logical that, as Telefunken were trying to get
the system widely adopted they should create an English name for it,
and PAL is a very good, friendly name, rather better than NTSC.


Yes, as a *word*, PAL sounds friendly in English, but I've always
thought "Phase Alternation Line[wise]" sounded really awkward.

Rod.

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  #24  
Old March 20th 17, 01:38 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Graham.[_12_]
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Posts: 385
Default TV system conversion

On Mon, 20 Mar 2017 10:56:16 +0000, Roderick Stewart
wrote:

On Mon, 20 Mar 2017 09:05:37 +0000, Bill Taylor
wrote:


Does anyone know what "PAL" really stands for? All the books I've seen
give it as "Phase Alternation Line" or "Phase Alternation Linewise",
but I've always assumed that it must have been named in German and
the English translation contrived to keep the same initials, hence the
rather inelegant phrase that we've become used to. Perhaps the
original name is something neater in its own language?

Rod.


No, but Wikipedia has this mildly amusing story.

"When interviewed by German talk show host Hans Rosenthal on why he
had named it the "PAL system", Bruch replied that certainly no German
would want to have a "Bruch-System" had his family name been used as
the eponym; Bruch in German is synonymous with "broken"."

And it would seem quite logical that, as Telefunken were trying to get
the system widely adopted they should create an English name for it,
and PAL is a very good, friendly name, rather better than NTSC.


Yes, as a *word*, PAL sounds friendly in English, but I've always
thought "Phase Alternation Line[wise]" sounded really awkward.

Rod.


Agreed. The LAP System it is then.
--

Graham.
%Profound_observation%
  #25  
Old March 20th 17, 03:58 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Tim+[_4_]
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Posts: 182
Default TV system conversion

Roderick Stewart wrote:
On Sun, 19 Mar 2017 23:16:08 +0100, Wolfgang Schwanke
wrote:

What I remember at times was a fine +/- 45 degree lattice pattern (like
a garden trellis) overlaid on patches of certain colours. Was that how
SECAM showed cross-luminance.


I think the cause is that SECAM is FM, hence the colour carrier is
always present at full amplitude.


It's always present at *some* amplitude. There is a filter to reduce
its amplitude at its unmodulated frequency, i.e. where there is no
colour, though it's never zero.

[...]

SECAM was invented before PAL. I think it's fair to say that regarding
picture quality PAL is better, but SECAM is said to be more robust
especially under poor reception. France's insistance on using it
instead of PAL was partly political to protect its domestic industry,
and so was their campaigning in the Eastern block. Conversely the
inventor of PAL claims in a book that he had no support from the German
government, and all the campaigning for PAL abroad was entirely
Telefunken's initiative. But he is biased, so maybe he's not telling
the whole story. In any case there was a lot of politics going on.


Does anyone know what "PAL" really stands for?


I thought it was Perfect At Last, as opposed to Never The Same Colour. ;-)

I'm sure the Internet knows. ;-)

Tim
--
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  #26  
Old March 20th 17, 04:24 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Mark Carver
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Posts: 7,562
Default TV system conversion

On 20/03/2017 10:56, Roderick Stewart wrote:


Yes, as a *word*, PAL sounds friendly in English, but I've always
thought "Phase Alternation Line[wise]" sounded really awkward.


Peace At Last ?

--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.
  #27  
Old March 20th 17, 10:55 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
bilou[_2_]
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Posts: 19
Default TV system conversion


"Mark Carver" wrote in message
...

Yes, which is why the USSR adopted the system. The chroma channel in SECAM
was intrinsically FM. I can remember playing with a SECAM SPG, and turning
the chroma signal up and down in amplitude, it made no difference until
the 'quieting point' to the received picture.
The downside was the triangular noise spectrum for FM, so I don't
now how it fared there ?

I don't know whether the French ever carried out RBS tests, but if they
did it would be interesting to know the quality of picture received at
the end of a multihop rebroadcast similar to the BBC having all
transmitters on RBS from CP to Scotland.


Umm, good question !

Hi
FM allowed for clipping of the chrominance to preserve
chroma SNR on a long chain of AM repeaters.
As far as I know it was never used in France, may be in USSR
but it was also useful in Video Tape Recorders.


  #28  
Old March 21st 17, 09:38 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
NY
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Posts: 1,060
Default TV system conversion

"pamela" wrote in message
...
On 06:15 21 Mar 2017, Wolfgang Schwanke wrote:

pamela wrote
in :

This device is the size of a paperback book and cost 55. It
works perfectly. I would love to go back in time and show it to
the engineers of 1950!

But it wouldn't work on their old fashioned electricity. :-(


Why not?


Have you seen how chunky old wiring from the 1950s used to look
like? Modern electronics wouldn't work properly using those bulky
old electrons because today's seminconductors are contructed with
extremely tiny wires.


Well today's electrons are digital, unlike the old analogue "vinyl"
electrons :-)

  #29  
Old March 22nd 17, 12:36 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
NY
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,060
Default TV system conversion

"Wolfgang Schwanke" wrote in message
...
pamela wrote
in :

Have you seen how chunky old wiring from the 1950s used to look
like? Modern electronics wouldn't work properly using those bulky
old electrons because today's seminconductors are contructed with
extremely tiny wires.


Were the atoms bigger too? That would explain why they were so keen on
splitting them.


If you use silicon ICs to split the atom, do you use fission chips? ;-)

 




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