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Who decides about what to AD?



 
 
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  #11  
Old January 11th 17, 11:39 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
tim...[_2_]
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Default Who decides about what to AD?



"Martin" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 10 Jan 2017 15:20:09 -0000, "Phi" wrote:

Why does the signing person stand obscuring the right side of the picture
and not in the margin provided.


Why does anybody need signing and subtitles?


I don't imagine anyone does need signing AND subtitles

but I need the subtitles when I randomly end up watching the signed version
of a program to resolve a clash

tim



  #12  
Old January 11th 17, 11:42 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
tim...[_2_]
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Default Who decides about what to AD?



"Martin" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 11 Jan 2017 00:28:23 +0000, Davey wrote:

On Tue, 10 Jan 2017 21:08:36 +0000 (GMT)
charles wrote:

In article ,
Martin wrote:
On Tue, 10 Jan 2017 15:20:09 -0000, "Phi"
wrote:

Why does the signing person stand obscuring the right side of the
picture and not in the margin provided.

Why does anybody need signing and subtitles?

I wondered about that when, a few years ago, we went to the Royal
Opera House. You wouldn't be able to hear the singing via signing.


I once attended the funeral of a severely deaf person, the father of a
friend. He had been part of the Profoundly Deaf community in Michigan.
During the Service, held in a large Church, there was a signing priest
to keep the mostly deaf congregation informed as to what was being said
by the priest holding the service. During this, a conversation
sprung up between several of the deaf congregation members spread
across the auditorium, and it escalated into a furious, but silent,
flurry of conversation. It was a most surreal experience. I felt quite
exhausted when it was over.


That doesn't explain why TV needs to have both signing and subtitles.


Because not everyone who needs subtitles is congenially deaf and therefore
had the opportunity to become proficient in signing

and not everyone who is deaf can read

tim



  #13  
Old January 13th 17, 06:16 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Dickie mint[_2_]
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Posts: 245
Default Who decides about what to AD?

On 11/01/2017 08:07, Roderick Stewart wrote:
They missed a golden opportunity. Since the days of teletext we've
been familiar with the concept of sending subtitles as a separate data
stream from the main programme, to be added optionally to the display
in the receiver. I still find it astonishing that nobody thought of
doing the same with signing for the deaf.


It has been thought of, and considerable work done on finding a way to.
My comment refers to my assumption that as work in R & D *was* in
progress in 2004 and indeed before that, that near insurmountable
problems must exist. Not least, I suspect, funding! And possibly the
decimation of R & D.

Richard
  #14  
Old January 13th 17, 07:27 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Mark Carver
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Default Who decides about what to AD?

On 13/01/2017 20:02, Martin wrote:

I don't see any justification for signing TV programmes.
Subtitles are adequate.


What about the significant number of deaf people who can't read ?

--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.
  #15  
Old January 13th 17, 07:58 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
NY
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Default Who decides about what to AD?

"Mark Carver" wrote in message
...
On 13/01/2017 20:02, Martin wrote:

I don't see any justification for signing TV programmes.
Subtitles are adequate.


What about the significant number of deaf people who can't read ?


Is the proportion of illiterate deaf people significantly greater than the
proportion of illiterate hearing people in the population at large?
If so, I wonder why. In the deaf community, can a greater proportion
understand sign language (eg BSL) than can read English? Why, given that
both languages require some form of tuition which is more difficult if you
can't teach it by speaking to the pupil.

  #16  
Old January 13th 17, 08:17 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Dickie mint[_2_]
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Default Who decides about what to AD?


I don't see any justification for signing TV programmes.





It's mandatory?

A3.3 in
https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/asse...vices-2015.pdf

Richard
  #17  
Old January 14th 17, 08:30 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
tim...[_2_]
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Posts: 356
Default Who decides about what to AD?



"NY" wrote in message
o.uk...
"Mark Carver" wrote in message
...
On 13/01/2017 20:02, Martin wrote:

I don't see any justification for signing TV programmes.
Subtitles are adequate.


What about the significant number of deaf people who can't read ?


Is the proportion of illiterate deaf people significantly greater than the
proportion of illiterate hearing people in the population at large?


you seem to have missed the basis fact that illiterate normal people can
hear the item

illiterate deaf people can't (and therefore need an alternative)



  #18  
Old January 14th 17, 11:23 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
NY
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Posts: 1,006
Default Who decides about what to AD?

"Martin" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 13 Jan 2017 20:27:38 +0000, Mark Carver

wrote:

On 13/01/2017 20:02, Martin wrote:

I don't see any justification for signing TV programmes.
Subtitles are adequate.


What about the significant number of deaf people who can't read ?


Are there a significant number of deaf people who can't read? What
percentage?


I would expect that the proportion of illiterate deaf people would be *less*
that in the general population, because reading and writing is an important
way of being able to communicate with people who don't know BSL, given that
they can't use speech/hearing.

I had to go to a deaf client to sort out her computer. I received a phone
call from an interpreter service which used people to translate between what
she typed on a text phone and spoke those words to me, then typed my replies
to her - that was for setting up the meeting.

When I went to see her, it was weird not being able to do the normal
"getting to know you" chat and small-talk. Whenever I wanted to asked her a
question or tell her something, I had to write it down or else type it in
Notepad on the computer, and wait for her to come to the computer so she
could reply. Shame that BSL isn't normally taught in schools.

Why is it that America and Britain evolved different sign languages, given
that we both speak/write the same language and therefore there is an
expectation that if people from the two countries can speak/write to each
other, deaf people should be able to communicate as well. And yes, I realise
that BSL and ASL are languages in their own right (eg with their own
grammar) and are not just pictorial representations of English.

  #19  
Old January 14th 17, 11:40 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Max Demian
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Default Who decides about what to AD?

On 14/01/2017 10:01, Martin wrote:
On Fri, 13 Jan 2017 21:17:23 +0000, Dickie mint
wrote:


I don't see any justification for signing TV programmes.


It's mandatory?

A3.3 in
https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/asse...vices-2015.pdf


"From 1 January 2016, and in accordance with section 303(10)(c) of the
Communications Act 2003, relevant channels should, from the first anniversary of
the relevant date, broadcast each month no less than the minimum amounts of
sign-presented programming specified in Table 1 of the Code on Television Access
Services, such programming to be shown between 7am and 11pm local time.
Ofcom will keep this requirement under review."

BBC put it on repeats shown after midnight.


"Table 1" - What a load of garbage. I wonder how much we pay people to
prepare such documents. I don't remember a referendum on the subject.
Making provision for people with various disabilities is all very well,
but it shouldn't be allowed to impinge on the population to such an extent.

--
Max Demian
  #20  
Old January 14th 17, 11:46 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Peter Duncanson
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Posts: 4,185
Default Who decides about what to AD?

On Sat, 14 Jan 2017 09:30:32 -0000, "tim..."
wrote:



"NY" wrote in message
news:[email protected] co.uk...
"Mark Carver" wrote in message
...
On 13/01/2017 20:02, Martin wrote:

I don't see any justification for signing TV programmes.
Subtitles are adequate.

What about the significant number of deaf people who can't read ?


Is the proportion of illiterate deaf people significantly greater than the
proportion of illiterate hearing people in the population at large?


you seem to have missed the basis fact that illiterate normal people can
hear the item

illiterate deaf people can't (and therefore need an alternative)


Apparently functional illeiteracy is noticeably higher among deaf people
than among hearing people.

One discussion:
https://answers.yahoo.com/question/i...3232640AAmEuL2

Why do some people think deaf people are illiterate?
I do like to know why some people think deaf people can't read?
I have meet few (hearing) people that can not read also.
But not all of them.
I ask this question because I am deaf.

Best Answer: Because so many of them can't read well and are
functionally illiterate. And many of those who do not read well,
also do not write well. Many people who are Deaf and use primarily
sign language write using the sentence structure of sign language
versus written English. Deaf illiteracy is not only problematic in
English speaking countries - it is a world wide phenomena.

Ninety-five per cent of profoundly deaf school-leavers only reach a
reading-age of nine. This functional illiteracy means that even the
nuances of stories from basic tabloid newspapers are beyond the
reach of many deaf adults.
http://www.literacytrust.org.uk/pubs/ste...

They point out that the average 18-year-old deaf high school
graduate reads on a third- or fourth-grade level.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con...

Poor literacy has characterized the deaf and hard of hearing
population for decades, with national data suggesting that median
literacy rates of deaf high school graduates have remained
consistently at around the fourth grade level.
http://ies.ed.gov/funding/grantsearch/de...

According to CAPMAS, 70 percent of deaf women and 60 percent of deaf
men are illiterate. In contrast, a recent UNICEF report puts the
illiteracy rate among the Egypt’s hearing population at 41 percent
for women and 17 percent for men.
http://www.egypttoday.com/article.aspx?ArticleID=7783

In the United States, television captions [subtitles] are generally
in written English, yet the English-literacy rates among people who
are deaf are low compared to hearing peers.
http://jdsde.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/...bstract/6/1/43

This paper reveals that the literacy rate of the Deaf is far below
that of the average population – an issue that needs to be
addressed.
http://www.pili.org/dadel/Education_..._Deaf_Children


Subtitles are no use to a person, deaf or otherwise, who cannot read
fast enough to keep up.

--
Peter Duncanson
(in uk.tech.digital-tv)
 




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