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uk.tech.digital-tv (Digital TV - General) (uk.tech.digital-tv) Discussion of all matters technical in origin related to the reception of digital television transmissions, be they via satellite, terrestrial or cable. Advertising is forbidden, with no exceptions.

Local low-power transmitters



 
 
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  #11  
Old December 23rd 16, 09:44 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Paul Ratcliffe
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Posts: 2,410
Default Local low-power transmitters

On 23 Dec 2016 01:06:39 GMT, Steve Thackery wrote:

You can't receive what it don't transmit...


I don't know much about this stuff, but maybe the idea is that
the other muxes could be picked up off another transmitter,


If they could do that, why would they bother building the other
one?

Or maybe they could forego HD and shove all the SD channels into the
three muxes. Or some other arrangement I haven't thought of.


They forgo most of the crap channels and only get the main HDs.
Seems reasonable.

When can we expect you to mature into an adult, Paul?


Pathetic abuse when you've lost the argument. Perhaps you just didn't
like the exposure of your lack of basic common senes.

It can't come soon enough for my liking.


I really don't care what you like.
  #12  
Old December 23rd 16, 10:06 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
charles[_2_]
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Posts: 498
Default Local low-power transmitters

In article ,
Paul Ratcliffe wrote:
On 23 Dec 2016 01:06:39 GMT, Steve Thackery wrote:


You can't receive what it don't transmit...


I don't know much about this stuff, but maybe the idea is that
the other muxes could be picked up off another transmitter,


If they could do that, why would they bother building the other
one?


When the original requirement for the relay was analogue ghosting on the
main station, then a useable digital signal might be possible from the
relay. No attempt was made to re-assess the need for the relay after DSO.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
  #13  
Old December 23rd 16, 10:19 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Steve Thackery[_4_]
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Posts: 17
Default Local low-power transmitters

Paul Ratcliffe wrote:

Pathetic abuse when you've lost the argument. Perhaps you just
didn't like the exposure of your lack of basic common senes.


Argument? I didn't realise we were having one.

I just found it strange that these low power transmitters only
transmit half the muxes (don't the viewers complain?), hence
wondering if I was missing something.

If they could do that, why would they bother building the other
one?


Power levels? I wondered if some muxes are transmitted with more
power than others, hence building a local repeater only for the low
power ones. I don't lack common sense, just knowledge.

I really don't care what you like.


Awwww..... poor baby!

--
Steve Thackery, Nottingham, UK
  #14  
Old December 23rd 16, 10:24 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Steve Thackery[_4_]
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Posts: 17
Default Local low-power transmitters

Woody wrote:

Small relay sites only transmit what are now known as PSB1-3, or
what used to be BBCA, D3/4, amd BBCB. They have become known in the
trade as 'Freeview Lite.'


snipped lots of good information

Thanks, Woody, that's really interesting. As others have made clear,
Freeview Lite covers all the "main" channels, so I guess the
shortfall for most viewers is less that one might think.

Cheers, Woody.

--
Steve Thackery, Nottingham, UK
  #15  
Old December 23rd 16, 10:45 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
charles[_2_]
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Posts: 498
Default Local low-power transmitters

In article ,
Steve Thackery wrote:
Paul Ratcliffe wrote:


Pathetic abuse when you've lost the argument. Perhaps you just
didn't like the exposure of your lack of basic common senes.


Argument? I didn't realise we were having one.


I just found it strange that these low power transmitters only
transmit half the muxes (don't the viewers complain?), hence
wondering if I was missing something.


Commercial reality.

If they could do that, why would they bother building the other
one?


Power levels? I wondered if some muxes are transmitted with more
power than others, hence building a local repeater only for the low
power ones. I don't lack common sense, just knowledge.


I really don't care what you like.


Awwww..... poor baby!


--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
  #16  
Old December 23rd 16, 10:49 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Steve Thackery[_4_]
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Posts: 17
Default Local low-power transmitters

charles wrote:

Commercial reality.


Yes, so it would seem.

--
Steve Thackery, Nottingham, UK
  #17  
Old December 23rd 16, 11:02 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Peter Crosland
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Posts: 511
Default Local low-power transmitters

On 23/12/2016 11:24, Steve Thackery wrote:
Woody wrote:

Small relay sites only transmit what are now known as PSB1-3, or
what used to be BBCA, D3/4, amd BBCB. They have become known in the
trade as 'Freeview Lite.'


snipped lots of good information

Thanks, Woody, that's really interesting. As others have made clear,
Freeview Lite covers all the "main" channels, so I guess the
shortfall for most viewers is less that one might think.



The answer these days for most locations is surely to use Freesat. It
cant be long before terrestrial TV becomes obsolete.

Retires to bunker!


--
Peter Crosland

Reply address is valid
  #18  
Old December 23rd 16, 11:46 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Mark Carver
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Posts: 7,539
Default Local low-power transmitters

On 23/12/2016 11:45, charles wrote:
In article ,
Steve Thackery wrote:
Paul Ratcliffe wrote:


Pathetic abuse when you've lost the argument. Perhaps you just
didn't like the exposure of your lack of basic common senes.


Argument? I didn't realise we were having one.


I just found it strange that these low power transmitters only
transmit half the muxes (don't the viewers complain?), hence
wondering if I was missing something.


Commercial reality.


Yes, only 80 stations (50 main, and 30 what were relays in old money)
transmit all 6 national muxes. That accounts for 90% of the UK
population coverage. The remaining 1080 relays only carry the three
PSBs, they account in total for only around 9% of the population.

There were allocations approved for about 200 transmitters in total
to carry six muxes, but the cost/benefit wasn't considered good enough.

There is not enough spectrum (without resorting to SFNs, and that's
anther story) to carry six muxes on all 1154 transmitters, and remember
since DSO, nothing above UHF ch 61 is available to be used, and after
2020 nothing above Ch 49. The fun starts in nine months from now in N
Scotland.


--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.
  #19  
Old December 23rd 16, 11:47 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Woody[_5_]
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Posts: 1,622
Default Local low-power transmitters


"Steve Thackery" wrote in message
...
Woody wrote:

Small relay sites only transmit what are now known as PSB1-3, or
what used to be BBCA, D3/4, amd BBCB. They have become known in the
trade as 'Freeview Lite.'


snipped lots of good information

Thanks, Woody, that's really interesting. As others have made
clear,
Freeview Lite covers all the "main" channels, so I guess the
shortfall for most viewers is less that one might think.


You would be surprised how many people - especially the older
brigade - still only use BBC1 and ITV, not 4 or 5 or news channels or
anything else.

Before I took early retirement a few years ago from a well known TV
and radio transmitter operator, our on site transmitter electrician
said that in his opinion we should give everyone a satellite dish and
a cheap and simple STB. Then we should switch off all terrestrial
transmitters. The saving on electricity and diesel for the standby
gens would pay for the dishes in no time at all.

I suspect he may have a point - if not a little impractical.

One point of interest is radiated power. Analogue transmitter power
was measured on peak sync which is typically 10dB above the average
video power. However as DTTV is a waveform called a COFDM (Google it)
the average power is more constant.

Take Emley Moor for instance. Analogue erp was 870KW on, say, BBC1,
but on DTTV it is 174KW which is a drop of 7dB. Given that the average
for analogue was 10dB lower it could be argued that there is actually
a radiated power increase of 3dB. Add to this that DTTV receivers are
typically as much as 20dB more sensitive than analogue types it does
follow the suggestion that some relays could be removed as a usable
signal should be available from another site or even a main station.


--
Woody

harrogate3 at ntlworld dot com


  #20  
Old December 23rd 16, 12:25 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Jim Lesurf[_2_]
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Posts: 4,130
Default Local low-power transmitters

In article , Mark Carver
wrote:

There is not enough spectrum (without resorting to SFNs, and that's
anther story) to carry six muxes on all 1154 transmitters, and remember
since DSO, nothing above UHF ch 61 is available to be used, and after
2020 nothing above Ch 49. The fun starts in nine months from now in N
Scotland.


Um. So Scotland is being thrust "first into the field" when it comes to the
squeeze down to below Ch50?

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

 




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