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Digital drop out.



 
 
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  #1  
Old December 4th 16, 10:51 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Brian Gaff
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Posts: 6,564
Default Digital drop out.

No not some kind of bit hippie, its the tendency for feeds to radio and tv
transmitters to be far worse than in the good old analogue days as the word
glitch had never been invented.
It seems to me listening to freeview radio and dab the momentary drop out
sometimes accompanied by a he squeak is pretty common and not the fault of
the receiver.
Its obviously mostly in the feed as even with variable delays the same
glitches occur in the same place program wise. Is this just part of the
price we pay to have a broadcaster who outsources all the distribution stuff
to a third party?


While on the subject of delay. I find this issue very annoying. In the old
days you could put an fm radio on downstairs and upstairs on the same
station and they would be completely in sync. However nowadays even two dab
or freeview tuners tuned to the same channel can be seconds apart from each
other and the Internet feeds even worse.
So when the end of world is about to happen, lets hope we all have an
analogue feed to the commentator or his last words will never be heard....
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!


  #2  
Old December 4th 16, 11:06 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Indy Jess John
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Posts: 1,046
Default Digital drop out.

On 04/12/2016 11:51, Brian Gaff wrote:
While on the subject of delay. I find this issue very annoying. In the old
days you could put an fm radio on downstairs and upstairs on the same
station and they would be completely in sync. However nowadays even two dab
or freeview tuners tuned to the same channel can be seconds apart from each
other and the Internet feeds even worse.


I have a radio controlled clock that is supposed to sync to the
broadcast time signal whenever it is received, to keep it accurate to
the second.

On Armistice Day I watched the proceedings on TV. Big Ben struck the
hour to signal the start of the silence. It's chime was 5 seconds after
my own clock showed 11 o'clock.

For an occasion like that, I would expect Big Ben to be spot on, and for
the people within direct earshot to hear it exactly on the hour. So the
5 seconds had to be broadcast delays.

Jim
  #3  
Old December 4th 16, 02:01 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Max Demian
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Posts: 3,720
Default Digital drop out.

On Sun, 4 Dec 2016 11:51:19 -0000, "Brian Gaff"
wrote:

While on the subject of delay. I find this issue very annoying. In

the old
days you could put an fm radio on downstairs and upstairs on the

same
station and they would be completely in sync. However nowadays

even two dab
or freeview tuners tuned to the same channel can be seconds apart

from each
other and the Internet feeds even worse.
So when the end of world is about to happen, lets hope we all

have an
analogue feed to the commentator or his last words will never be

heard....

Connect one of those low power FM transmitters used in cars or for
wireless headphones to your main radio source and tune into it with
your other FM receivers. Will work with recordings too.

--
Max Demian
  #4  
Old December 4th 16, 02:29 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Davey
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Posts: 2,176
Default Digital drop out.

On Sun, 04 Dec 2016 12:06:36 +0000
Indy Jess John wrote:

On 04/12/2016 11:51, Brian Gaff wrote:
While on the subject of delay. I find this issue very annoying. In
the old days you could put an fm radio on downstairs and upstairs
on the same station and they would be completely in sync. However
nowadays even two dab or freeview tuners tuned to the same channel
can be seconds apart from each other and the Internet feeds even
worse.


I have a radio controlled clock that is supposed to sync to the
broadcast time signal whenever it is received, to keep it accurate to
the second.

On Armistice Day I watched the proceedings on TV. Big Ben struck the
hour to signal the start of the silence. It's chime was 5 seconds
after my own clock showed 11 o'clock.

For an occasion like that, I would expect Big Ben to be spot on, and
for the people within direct earshot to hear it exactly on the hour.
So the 5 seconds had to be broadcast delays.

Jim


As I understand it, it is delays due to the processing of the digital
signal. Different sets may have different delays, and radio and TV may
have even more different delays.
FM radio would have given you Big Ben accurately, but nothing digital
is likely to have done.

A loss, as far as I am concerned.

--
Davey.
  #5  
Old December 4th 16, 03:02 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
charles[_2_]
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Posts: 531
Default Digital drop out.

In article ,
Davey wrote:
On Sun, 04 Dec 2016 12:06:36 +0000
Indy Jess John wrote:


On 04/12/2016 11:51, Brian Gaff wrote:
While on the subject of delay. I find this issue very annoying. In
the old days you could put an fm radio on downstairs and upstairs
on the same station and they would be completely in sync. However
nowadays even two dab or freeview tuners tuned to the same channel
can be seconds apart from each other and the Internet feeds even
worse.


I have a radio controlled clock that is supposed to sync to the
broadcast time signal whenever it is received, to keep it accurate to
the second.

On Armistice Day I watched the proceedings on TV. Big Ben struck the
hour to signal the start of the silence. It's chime was 5 seconds
after my own clock showed 11 o'clock.

For an occasion like that, I would expect Big Ben to be spot on, and
for the people within direct earshot to hear it exactly on the hour.
So the 5 seconds had to be broadcast delays.

Jim


As I understand it, it is delays due to the processing of the digital
signal. Different sets may have different delays, and radio and TV may
have even more different delays.
FM radio would have given you Big Ben accurately, but nothing digital
is likely to have done.


for a great many years all BBC radio signals have been sent digitally from
Broadcating House to the various transmitters. I don't think that there is
any loner a guaranteds route that they use.

A loss, as far as I am concerned.


--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
  #6  
Old December 4th 16, 03:21 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Jim Lesurf[_2_]
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Posts: 4,141
Default Digital drop out.

In article , Davey
wrote:

As I understand it, it is delays due to the processing of the digital
signal. Different sets may have different delays, and radio and TV may
have even more different delays. FM radio would have given you Big Ben
accurately, but nothing digital is likely to have done.


Strictly speaking FM uses NICAM for distribution, and NICAM is "digital".
It does add a delay, but I doubt you'd notice it. So your "nothing" aims at
the wrong target. The cause is the lossy compression schemes employed for
'digital' TV and radio which the systems take some time to process. Not
"digital" per se.

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

  #7  
Old December 4th 16, 03:31 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Davey
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Posts: 2,176
Default Digital drop out.

On Sun, 04 Dec 2016 16:21:34 +0000 (GMT)
Jim Lesurf wrote:

In article , Davey
wrote:

As I understand it, it is delays due to the processing of the
digital signal. Different sets may have different delays, and radio
and TV may have even more different delays. FM radio would have
given you Big Ben accurately, but nothing digital is likely to have
done.


Strictly speaking FM uses NICAM for distribution, and NICAM is
"digital". It does add a delay, but I doubt you'd notice it. So your
"nothing" aims at the wrong target. The cause is the lossy
compression schemes employed for 'digital' TV and radio which the
systems take some time to process. Not "digital" per se.

Jim


So I had the right idea, just not the right detail interpretation.

--
Davey.
  #8  
Old December 4th 16, 03:39 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Mark Carver
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,556
Default Digital drop out.

On 04/12/2016 16:21, Jim Lesurf wrote:
In article , Davey
wrote:

As I understand it, it is delays due to the processing of the digital
signal. Different sets may have different delays, and radio and TV may
have even more different delays. FM radio would have given you Big Ben
accurately, but nothing digital is likely to have done.


Strictly speaking FM uses NICAM for distribution, and NICAM is "digital".
It does add a delay, but I doubt you'd notice it. So your "nothing" aims at
the wrong target. The cause is the lossy compression schemes employed for
'digital' TV and radio which the systems take some time to process. Not
"digital" per se.


NICAM itself adds a delay of around 14ms. However, the MPLS circuits
that now carry the NICAM encoded streams to the FM transmitters
introduce a typical delay of around 80-100 ms, so in short nothing you
hear on radio now is 'live'.

The AM transmitters are also either fed by satellite, or NICAM over MPLS.


--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.
  #9  
Old December 4th 16, 04:22 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Bill Wright[_3_]
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Posts: 1,668
Default Digital drop out.

On 04/12/2016 16:39, Mark Carver wrote:

NICAM itself adds a delay of around 14ms.



It's near instantaneous then?

Bill
  #10  
Old December 4th 16, 05:08 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Mark Carver
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Posts: 7,556
Default Digital drop out.

On 04/12/2016 17:22, Bill Wright wrote:
On 04/12/2016 16:39, Mark Carver wrote:

NICAM itself adds a delay of around 14ms.



It's near instantaneous then?


Yes, 14ms near !


--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.
 




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