A Sky, cable and digital tv forum. Digital TV Banter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » Digital TV Banter forum » Digital TV Newsgroups » uk.tech.digital-tv (Digital TV - General)
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

uk.tech.digital-tv (Digital TV - General) (uk.tech.digital-tv) Discussion of all matters technical in origin related to the reception of digital television transmissions, be they via satellite, terrestrial or cable. Advertising is forbidden, with no exceptions.

Digital reception



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old November 26th 16, 09:11 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
F Murtz
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6
Default Digital reception


Don't know if UK has similar systems to us in Australia
My digital tv reception is shot to hell,
They have put an NBN fixed cellular broadband tower a few hundred metres
from my house in Couridjah,I do not know if it is up and running yet(the
FTTN is not ready yet although it seems to be all in)
I wonder if they are testing the tower and 4G is causing my tv reception
problem
  #2  
Old November 26th 16, 09:41 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Scott[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,172
Default Digital reception

On Sat, 26 Nov 2016 21:11:25 +1100, F Murtz
wrote:


Don't know if UK has similar systems to us in Australia
My digital tv reception is shot to hell,
They have put an NBN fixed cellular broadband tower a few hundred metres
from my house in Couridjah,I do not know if it is up and running yet(the
FTTN is not ready yet although it seems to be all in)
I wonder if they are testing the tower and 4G is causing my tv reception
problem


I think we get free filters if this happens, but they are very cheap
to buy.
  #3  
Old November 26th 16, 09:43 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
David Woolley[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 505
Default Digital reception

On 26/11/16 10:11, F Murtz wrote:

Don't know if UK has similar systems to us in Australia
My digital tv reception is shot to hell,
They have put an NBN fixed cellular broadband tower a few hundred metres
from my house in Couridjah,I do not know if it is up and running yet(the
FTTN is not ready yet although it seems to be all in)
I wonder if they are testing the tower and 4G is causing my tv reception
problem


I imagine that the basic technology is the same, but the exact selection
of frequencies will vary.

The 4G issue in the UK arose when frequencies vacated for TV were sold
for 4G use, and mainly affects people in areas where the TV frequencies
are towards the end of the band closest to 4G use.

If the 4G transmitters are within the old TV range, you should be able
to use the signal strength detection features of the TV to detect the 4G
signal strength, and tell whether it is working, and on which frequencies.

Note that this is technically a fault with the receivers, not the
transmitter, although no receiver is perfect in rejecting transmissions
on nearby frequencies. Generally the solution is to install filters to
reduce the strength of the 4G signal at input to the receiver. In the
UK, these were paid for by the 4G operators.
  #4  
Old November 26th 16, 04:47 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Woody[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,622
Default Digital reception


"F Murtz" wrote in message
b.com...

Don't know if UK has similar systems to us in Australia
My digital tv reception is shot to hell,
They have put an NBN fixed cellular broadband tower a few hundred
metres from my house in Couridjah,I do not know if it is up and
running yet(the FTTN is not ready yet although it seems to be all
in)
I wonder if they are testing the tower and 4G is causing my tv
reception problem


Not knowing what NBN or fixed cellular broadband is (not terms we have
in the UK) it raises some questions:-

Is your TV aerial pointed towards the tower give or take maybe 30
degrees;
What size aerial do you have;
Is the aerial vertical or horizontal;
Are you using a masthead amp or wideband distribution amp;
What frequencies are used for TV in your area?

Explain these and almost certainly someone will be along to help.



--
Woody

harrogate3 at ntlworld dot com


  #5  
Old November 27th 16, 05:26 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
F Murtz
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6
Default Digital reception

Woody wrote:
"F Murtz" wrote in message
b.com...

Don't know if UK has similar systems to us in Australia
My digital tv reception is shot to hell,
They have put an NBN fixed cellular broadband tower a few hundred
metres from my house in Couridjah,I do not know if it is up and
running yet(the FTTN is not ready yet although it seems to be all
in)
I wonder if they are testing the tower and 4G is causing my tv
reception problem


Not knowing what NBN or fixed cellular broadband is (not terms we have
in the UK) it raises some questions:-

Is your TV aerial pointed towards the tower give or take maybe 30
degrees;
What size aerial do you have;
Is the aerial vertical or horizontal;
Are you using a masthead amp or wideband distribution amp;
What frequencies are used for TV in your area?

Explain these and almost certainly someone will be along to help.



In Aus a former govt. decided that every body was getting broadband,
mainly FTTH,so they created "THE NATIONAL BROADBAND NETWORK" (NBN)the
government has changed and they cut back on that a bit,we now are
getting fibre to the node or satellite or cellular wifi which has a
tower with about a 15 km radius and houses have an aerial.
In my circumstance I will get fibre to the node ,but they have also
erected a fixed cellular wifi tower next to an existing cellular phone
tower about 1000 metres from me sort of in line with the digital tv
transmission tower maybe 10 or 15 km from here.

This is existing aerial,it has masthead amp
http://imgur.com/a/kwkc9
  #6  
Old November 27th 16, 07:19 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Woody[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,622
Default Digital reception


"F Murtz" wrote in message
web.com...
Woody wrote:
"F Murtz" wrote in message
b.com...

Don't know if UK has similar systems to us in Australia
My digital tv reception is shot to hell,
They have put an NBN fixed cellular broadband tower a few hundred
metres from my house in Couridjah,I do not know if it is up and
running yet(the FTTN is not ready yet although it seems to be all
in)
I wonder if they are testing the tower and 4G is causing my tv
reception problem


Not knowing what NBN or fixed cellular broadband is (not terms we
have
in the UK) it raises some questions:-

Is your TV aerial pointed towards the tower give or take maybe 30
degrees;
What size aerial do you have;
Is the aerial vertical or horizontal;
Are you using a masthead amp or wideband distribution amp;
What frequencies are used for TV in your area?

Explain these and almost certainly someone will be along to help.



In Aus a former govt. decided that every body was getting broadband,
mainly FTTH,so they created "THE NATIONAL BROADBAND NETWORK"
(NBN)the government has changed and they cut back on that a bit,we
now are getting fibre to the node or satellite or cellular wifi
which has a tower with about a 15 km radius and houses have an
aerial.
In my circumstance I will get fibre to the node ,but they have also
erected a fixed cellular wifi tower next to an existing cellular
phone tower about 1000 metres from me sort of in line with the
digital tv transmission tower maybe 10 or 15 km from here.

This is existing aerial,it has masthead amp
http://imgur.com/a/kwkc9



Given that you appear to be using both VHF and UHF for TV then one
would assume that the amp is wideband and it could well be that that
is overloading. I am surprised you need an amp for a Tx mast only 15Km
away - unless of course it is not very tall and is low powered.

The first thing that occurs to me is the downlead. Is it the copper
foil screened type? Given your TV is horizontally polarised but the
broadband will be vertical it is possible you are picking up the
interference on the cable. Replacing the cable with a good quality
foil screened cable would probably be very beneficial.

My second suggestion, if you can get at it, would be to take the
masthead amp out of circuit. If that doesn't cure it or you need the
amp then an in-line low-pass filter to take out the broadband fitted
between aerial and masthead amp would be the next option.

One other possibility, if you need the mast head amp, would be to
replace it with a very low gain variety - say 6-9dB - which would get
the signal up above the noise but be less liable to overloading, then
inside the house fit the filter (which as there is more space could be
better = bigger) and follow that with a second amp or distribution amp
with a bit more gain.

Having said all that, if NBN has degraded your reception and you can
prove it is their doing then I would have thought they have some
responsibility to fix the problem at no cost to you.


--
Woody

harrogate3 at ntlworld dot com


  #7  
Old November 27th 16, 09:35 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Brian Gaff
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,431
Default Digital reception

I thill thingk its madness to use such close frequencies for mobile
phones. After all most of the front ends of tvs are hardly super duper
designs with large dynmic ranges and great cross mod performance are they?

I have no doubt that the preselection on the first stage is wide as a barn
door.
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Scott" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 26 Nov 2016 21:11:25 +1100, F Murtz
wrote:


Don't know if UK has similar systems to us in Australia
My digital tv reception is shot to hell,
They have put an NBN fixed cellular broadband tower a few hundred metres
from my house in Couridjah,I do not know if it is up and running yet(the
FTTN is not ready yet although it seems to be all in)
I wonder if they are testing the tower and 4G is causing my tv reception
problem


I think we get free filters if this happens, but they are very cheap
to buy.



  #8  
Old November 27th 16, 11:06 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
F Murtz
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6
Default Digital reception

Woody wrote:
"F Murtz" wrote in message
web.com...
Woody wrote:
"F Murtz" wrote in message
b.com...

Don't know if UK has similar systems to us in Australia
My digital tv reception is shot to hell,
They have put an NBN fixed cellular broadband tower a few hundred
metres from my house in Couridjah,I do not know if it is up and
running yet(the FTTN is not ready yet although it seems to be all
in)
I wonder if they are testing the tower and 4G is causing my tv
reception problem

Not knowing what NBN or fixed cellular broadband is (not terms we
have
in the UK) it raises some questions:-

Is your TV aerial pointed towards the tower give or take maybe 30
degrees;
What size aerial do you have;
Is the aerial vertical or horizontal;
Are you using a masthead amp or wideband distribution amp;
What frequencies are used for TV in your area?

Explain these and almost certainly someone will be along to help.



In Aus a former govt. decided that every body was getting broadband,
mainly FTTH,so they created "THE NATIONAL BROADBAND NETWORK"
(NBN)the government has changed and they cut back on that a bit,we
now are getting fibre to the node or satellite or cellular wifi
which has a tower with about a 15 km radius and houses have an
aerial.
In my circumstance I will get fibre to the node ,but they have also
erected a fixed cellular wifi tower next to an existing cellular
phone tower about 1000 metres from me sort of in line with the
digital tv transmission tower maybe 10 or 15 km from here.

This is existing aerial,it has masthead amp
http://imgur.com/a/kwkc9



Given that you appear to be using both VHF and UHF for TV then one
would assume that the amp is wideband and it could well be that that
is overloading. I am surprised you need an amp for a Tx mast only 15Km
away - unless of course it is not very tall and is low powered.


This setup was here when I moved here I am well out of the city and the
aerial is fairly high,there is no reception in this area without
masthead amplifier The tvs in aus have mainly changed to digital near
here and the aerial was probably before the change,it may have added
elements to accommodate digital or both when both systems were running

The first thing that occurs to me is the downlead. Is it the copper
foil screened type? Given your TV is horizontally polarised but the
broadband will be vertical it is possible you are picking up the
interference on the cable. Replacing the cable with a good quality
foil screened cable would probably be very beneficial.

I have been told the digital is vertical I have been experimenting with
one like this Which I am told is suitable for this area but am still
having problems


http://imgur.com/a/slElv

My second suggestion, if you can get at it, would be to take the
masthead amp out of circuit. If that doesn't cure it or you need the
amp then an in-line low-pass filter to take out the broadband fitted
between aerial and masthead amp would be the next option.

One other possibility, if you need the mast head amp, would be to
replace it with a very low gain variety - say 6-9dB - which would get
the signal up above the noise but be less liable to overloading, then
inside the house fit the filter (which as there is more space could be
better = bigger) and follow that with a second amp or distribution amp
with a bit more gain.

Having said all that, if NBN has degraded your reception and you can
prove it is their doing then I would have thought they have some
responsibility to fix the problem at no cost to you.



  #9  
Old November 27th 16, 11:24 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Jim Lesurf[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,130
Default Digital reception

In article , David Woolley
wrote:

Note that this is technically a fault with the receivers, not the
transmitter, although no receiver is perfect in rejecting transmissions
on nearby frequencies. Generally the solution is to install filters to
reduce the strength of the 4G signal at input to the receiver. In the
UK, these were paid for by the 4G operators.


I'm sure that some will argue that this is "a fault with the receivers".
Particularly the 4G companies. :-)

But in reality this judgement really depends on details like just how
strong the 'overpowering' unwanted signal may be.

I assume that when TV transmitters have been planned and assigned to the TV
broadcasters some thought was applied to deciding just how strong
"unwanted" TV transmissions should be for users. And that TV manufacturers
then could use that as a basis for arguing when their TV was not "faulty".

Having new transmissions from TXs very close to the TV set's antenna which
were *not* forseen by the above process doesn't strike me as something to
be always dismissed as a "fault of the receiver". All sensible engineering
is based on establishing the required circumstances of use. Changing those
later without giving the designer a chance to deal with the changes isn't a
"fault" in the TV engineering but in the questionable process that allowed
such a change in this manner.

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

  #10  
Old November 27th 16, 11:26 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Scott[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,172
Default Digital reception

On Sun, 27 Nov 2016 10:35:03 -0000, "Brian Gaff"
wrote:

I thill thingk its madness to use such close frequencies for mobile
phones. After all most of the front ends of tvs are hardly super duper
designs with large dynmic ranges and great cross mod performance are they?

I have no doubt that the preselection on the first stage is wide as a barn
door.
Brian


I agree entirely. Unfortunately, there appears to be an emerging
contrary view that television is not a good use of valuable spectrum.
I assume the argument is that all television is sent to static devices
that could use satellite or broadband, whereas mobile devices
genuinely require signals broadcast at a frequency with good
propagation characteristics.
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 03:22 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.SEO by vBSEO 2.4.0
Copyright 2004-2017 Digital TV Banter.
The comments are property of their posters.