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Is access to all frequencies for listening a human right?



 
 
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  #1  
Old November 7th 16, 07:21 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Brian Gaff
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,808
Default Is access to all frequencies for listening a human right?

I think it should be. At the moment there are so many devices that either
due to poor design or the way they operate, which pollute the airwaves that
its a scandal
Back in the old days we just had badly suppressed cars and motors, arcing
insulators on pylons, some TVs that kicked out harmonics from internal
oscillators, and welders.
These could be off or not affecting very many people and in the main were
suppressible.
Nowadays we seem to have no qualms about designing devices that use the
mains supply as transmission lines by brute force over great areas of
spectrum, leading to huge amounts of leakage of ticking noises whistles and
general noises.
There is the nasty poorly designed switch mode power supply or charger, the
TV displays that radiate hugely, the wireless or otherwise routers with
nasty carriers whose harmonics are ridiculously strong being radiated by
even wired networks, and the list goes on.
Now of these the powerline adaptors tend to have holes in their radiation
at ham bands, though, not all of them but what about the shortwave broadcast
bands?No of course not since this would mean there is not enough bandwidth
left for the purpose of transmitting high bit rate signals
Besides this still leaves you the other crap out there.
It does seem to me that we are sleepwalking into a world where no radio
frequencies can be used due to interference. I know I've said this before,
but surely here, in this century we should be able to fix this for the next
generation of devices?
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!


  #2  
Old November 7th 16, 08:45 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Phi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 273
Default Is access to all frequencies for listening a human right?

If I chopped the mains into a big inductor, I wonder how far the
interference would travel up the supply line.




"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
...
I think it should be. At the moment there are so many devices that either
due to poor design or the way they operate, which pollute the airwaves that
its a scandal
Back in the old days we just had badly suppressed cars and motors, arcing
insulators on pylons, some TVs that kicked out harmonics from internal
oscillators, and welders.
These could be off or not affecting very many people and in the main
were suppressible.
Nowadays we seem to have no qualms about designing devices that use the
mains supply as transmission lines by brute force over great areas of
spectrum, leading to huge amounts of leakage of ticking noises whistles
and general noises.
There is the nasty poorly designed switch mode power supply or charger,
the TV displays that radiate hugely, the wireless or otherwise routers
with nasty carriers whose harmonics are ridiculously strong being
radiated by even wired networks, and the list goes on.
Now of these the powerline adaptors tend to have holes in their radiation
at ham bands, though, not all of them but what about the shortwave
broadcast bands?No of course not since this would mean there is not enough
bandwidth left for the purpose of transmitting high bit rate signals
Besides this still leaves you the other crap out there.
It does seem to me that we are sleepwalking into a world where no radio
frequencies can be used due to interference. I know I've said this before,
but surely here, in this century we should be able to fix this for the
next generation of devices?
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!


  #3  
Old November 7th 16, 08:51 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Scott[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,260
Default Is access to all frequencies for listening a human right?

On Mon, 7 Nov 2016 08:21:01 -0000, "Brian Gaff"
wrote:

I think it should be. At the moment there are so many devices that either
due to poor design or the way they operate, which pollute the airwaves that
its a scandal
Back in the old days we just had badly suppressed cars and motors, arcing
insulators on pylons, some TVs that kicked out harmonics from internal
oscillators, and welders.
These could be off or not affecting very many people and in the main were
suppressible.
Nowadays we seem to have no qualms about designing devices that use the
mains supply as transmission lines by brute force over great areas of
spectrum, leading to huge amounts of leakage of ticking noises whistles and
general noises.
There is the nasty poorly designed switch mode power supply or charger, the
TV displays that radiate hugely, the wireless or otherwise routers with
nasty carriers whose harmonics are ridiculously strong being radiated by
even wired networks, and the list goes on.
Now of these the powerline adaptors tend to have holes in their radiation
at ham bands, though, not all of them but what about the shortwave broadcast
bands?No of course not since this would mean there is not enough bandwidth
left for the purpose of transmitting high bit rate signals
Besides this still leaves you the other crap out there.
It does seem to me that we are sleepwalking into a world where no radio
frequencies can be used due to interference. I know I've said this before,
but surely here, in this century we should be able to fix this for the next
generation of devices?
Brian


1. Not if national security is involved.

2. This post may explain something I wondered about for years. My FM
radio at university occasionally picked up TV sound. I was puzzled by
this.
  #4  
Old November 7th 16, 09:33 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Adrian Caspersz
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 265
Default Is access to all frequencies for listening a human right?

No, some stuff is purposely encrypted.

On 07/11/16 08:21, Brian Gaff wrote:
I think it should be.


Gov and business controls it all.

New equipment used in allocated bands contains protocols to avoid
effects of interference to other bits of new equipment.

Faulty equipment showing signs of interference is broken and should be
returned to source.

Old incompatible equipment can be recycled, and previously allocated
bands sold off. The government isn't in the habit of saving things that
someone is not paying for.

Which is why the amateur radio license was made free, and someone is not
doing anything about powerline interference to radio transmissions using
dead and dying transmission modes.

--
Adrian C
  #5  
Old November 7th 16, 09:53 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
David Woolley[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 526
Default Is access to all frequencies for listening a human right?

On 07/11/16 08:21, Brian Gaff wrote:
I think it should be. At the moment there are so many devices that either
due to poor design or the way they operate, which pollute the airwaves that
its a scandal


It is not a legal right. In the UK you can only listen to official
broadcast stations, time and frequency standards, and properly licensed
radio amateurs, unless there is a licence in effect.

The US is a bit more liberal, but they have explicit laws against
listening on cellular frequencies without using an unmodified cell phone.

Controls on unintentional radiation are a compromise between the ideal
and what manufacturers can afford to produce. They set limits well
above the natural background levels.

Enforcement of those controls is weak, largely relying on self
certification. Often components included during certification are
removed in production. That's illegal, but there are no resources to
enforce it.

Controls on radiation from power lines make idealistic assumptions about
the degree of balance in the system.

  #6  
Old November 7th 16, 11:30 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Roderick Stewart[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,131
Default Is access to all frequencies for listening a human right?

On Mon, 07 Nov 2016 09:51:47 +0000, Scott
wrote:

I think it should be. At the moment there are so many devices that either
due to poor design or the way they operate, which pollute the airwaves that
its a scandal
Back in the old days we just had badly suppressed cars and motors, arcing
insulators on pylons, some TVs that kicked out harmonics from internal
oscillators, and welders.
These could be off or not affecting very many people and in the main were
suppressible.
Nowadays we seem to have no qualms about designing devices that use the
mains supply as transmission lines by brute force over great areas of
spectrum, leading to huge amounts of leakage of ticking noises whistles and
general noises.
There is the nasty poorly designed switch mode power supply or charger, the
TV displays that radiate hugely, the wireless or otherwise routers with
nasty carriers whose harmonics are ridiculously strong being radiated by
even wired networks, and the list goes on.
Now of these the powerline adaptors tend to have holes in their radiation
at ham bands, though, not all of them but what about the shortwave broadcast
bands?No of course not since this would mean there is not enough bandwidth
left for the purpose of transmitting high bit rate signals
Besides this still leaves you the other crap out there.
It does seem to me that we are sleepwalking into a world where no radio
frequencies can be used due to interference. I know I've said this before,
but surely here, in this century we should be able to fix this for the next
generation of devices?
Brian


1. Not if national security is involved.

2. This post may explain something I wondered about for years. My FM
radio at university occasionally picked up TV sound. I was puzzled by
this.


Reception of analogue TV on an FM radio was more likely to be the
result of the local oscillator in the radio producing harmonics in the
UHF band, and the input stages of said radio failing to suppress
perfectly legitimate UHF broadcast signals. Perhaps not surprisingly,
it was usually worst with cheap FM radios.

I'm not sure what the same effect would sound like now, as there are
only digital signals in the UHF TV band. It would probably just sound
like noise, rather than recognisable programme material.

Rod.
  #7  
Old November 7th 16, 02:52 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Brian Gaff
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,808
Default Is access to all frequencies for listening a human right?

Funnily enough I did wonder what would happen if somebody put huge
capacitors across the mains in several houses on different phases up a
street?
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Phi" wrote in message
...
If I chopped the mains into a big inductor, I wonder how far the
interference would travel up the supply line.




"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
...
I think it should be. At the moment there are so many devices that either
due to poor design or the way they operate, which pollute the airwaves
that its a scandal
Back in the old days we just had badly suppressed cars and motors, arcing
insulators on pylons, some TVs that kicked out harmonics from internal
oscillators, and welders.
These could be off or not affecting very many people and in the main
were suppressible.
Nowadays we seem to have no qualms about designing devices that use the
mains supply as transmission lines by brute force over great areas of
spectrum, leading to huge amounts of leakage of ticking noises whistles
and general noises.
There is the nasty poorly designed switch mode power supply or charger,
the TV displays that radiate hugely, the wireless or otherwise routers
with nasty carriers whose harmonics are ridiculously strong being
radiated by even wired networks, and the list goes on.
Now of these the powerline adaptors tend to have holes in their radiation
at ham bands, though, not all of them but what about the shortwave
broadcast bands?No of course not since this would mean there is not
enough bandwidth left for the purpose of transmitting high bit rate
signals
Besides this still leaves you the other crap out there.
It does seem to me that we are sleepwalking into a world where no radio
frequencies can be used due to interference. I know I've said this
before, but surely here, in this century we should be able to fix this
for the next generation of devices?
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!




  #8  
Old November 7th 16, 02:54 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Brian Gaff
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,808
Default Is access to all frequencies for listening a human right?

And and, don't leave us waiting for your answer....
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Scott" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 7 Nov 2016 08:21:01 -0000, "Brian Gaff"
wrote:

I think it should be. At the moment there are so many devices that either
due to poor design or the way they operate, which pollute the airwaves
that
its a scandal
Back in the old days we just had badly suppressed cars and motors, arcing
insulators on pylons, some TVs that kicked out harmonics from internal
oscillators, and welders.
These could be off or not affecting very many people and in the main
were
suppressible.
Nowadays we seem to have no qualms about designing devices that use the
mains supply as transmission lines by brute force over great areas of
spectrum, leading to huge amounts of leakage of ticking noises whistles
and
general noises.
There is the nasty poorly designed switch mode power supply or charger,
the
TV displays that radiate hugely, the wireless or otherwise routers with
nasty carriers whose harmonics are ridiculously strong being radiated by
even wired networks, and the list goes on.
Now of these the powerline adaptors tend to have holes in their radiation
at ham bands, though, not all of them but what about the shortwave
broadcast
bands?No of course not since this would mean there is not enough bandwidth
left for the purpose of transmitting high bit rate signals
Besides this still leaves you the other crap out there.
It does seem to me that we are sleepwalking into a world where no radio
frequencies can be used due to interference. I know I've said this before,
but surely here, in this century we should be able to fix this for the
next
generation of devices?
Brian


1. Not if national security is involved.

2. This post may explain something I wondered about for years. My FM
radio at university occasionally picked up TV sound. I was puzzled by
this.



  #9  
Old November 7th 16, 03:02 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Brian Gaff
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,808
Default Is access to all frequencies for listening a human right?

And of course fm radios with poor preselection still do get airband radio as
the oscillator is the same amount offset in the opposite direction frequency
wise on fm as it is for the airband. However air band is am which makes it
sound distorted.

Another thing of course was that some very early cable systems tended to
use analogue signals simply shifted down to lower frequencies like 10 Mhz
and all sorts, and cross modulation and leakage can conspire to produce all
sorts of strange signals
back in the days of analogue mobiles my SX200 could use the oscillator so
second harmonic to receive these since the rf stage was untuned and sort of
DC to light in its frequency response.

Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Roderick Stewart" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 07 Nov 2016 09:51:47 +0000, Scott
wrote:

I think it should be. At the moment there are so many devices that either
due to poor design or the way they operate, which pollute the airwaves
that
its a scandal
Back in the old days we just had badly suppressed cars and motors,
arcing
insulators on pylons, some TVs that kicked out harmonics from internal
oscillators, and welders.
These could be off or not affecting very many people and in the main
were
suppressible.
Nowadays we seem to have no qualms about designing devices that use the
mains supply as transmission lines by brute force over great areas of
spectrum, leading to huge amounts of leakage of ticking noises whistles
and
general noises.
There is the nasty poorly designed switch mode power supply or charger,
the
TV displays that radiate hugely, the wireless or otherwise routers with
nasty carriers whose harmonics are ridiculously strong being radiated by
even wired networks, and the list goes on.
Now of these the powerline adaptors tend to have holes in their
radiation
at ham bands, though, not all of them but what about the shortwave
broadcast
bands?No of course not since this would mean there is not enough
bandwidth
left for the purpose of transmitting high bit rate signals
Besides this still leaves you the other crap out there.
It does seem to me that we are sleepwalking into a world where no radio
frequencies can be used due to interference. I know I've said this
before,
but surely here, in this century we should be able to fix this for the
next
generation of devices?
Brian


1. Not if national security is involved.

2. This post may explain something I wondered about for years. My FM
radio at university occasionally picked up TV sound. I was puzzled by
this.


Reception of analogue TV on an FM radio was more likely to be the
result of the local oscillator in the radio producing harmonics in the
UHF band, and the input stages of said radio failing to suppress
perfectly legitimate UHF broadcast signals. Perhaps not surprisingly,
it was usually worst with cheap FM radios.

I'm not sure what the same effect would sound like now, as there are
only digital signals in the UHF TV band. It would probably just sound
like noise, rather than recognisable programme material.

Rod.



 




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