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This week's silly question - working hours 9 AM - 5 PM



 
 
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  #1  
Old November 1st 16, 10:13 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
NY
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,023
Default This week's silly question - working hours 9 AM - 5 PM

With the clocks going back last weekend and everyone moaning about how dark
it was driving home in the evening, I started to think.

Why is it that the hours of the traditional office working day, 9 AM to 5
PM, were chosen to be asymmetric about noon? If they'd chosen 8 to 4
instead, the mornings and evenings would get dark equally - assuming that 12
noon is the point when the sun is highest in the sky.

I realise that many people in manual jobs traditionally worked shifts which
were very different from 9-5.


I often think it would be so much easier if all countries in the world
decided to adjust their clocks by half an hour (GMT+30m for northern
hemisphere; GMT-30m for southern hemisphere, plus the normal
one-hour-per-15-degrees correction for longitude) so as to observe a time
half-way between winter and summer time, and then stayed like that all year
round.

  #2  
Old November 1st 16, 10:19 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Davey
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Posts: 2,176
Default This week's silly question - working hours 9 AM - 5 PM

On Tue, 1 Nov 2016 11:13:32 -0000
"NY" wrote:

I often think it would be so much easier if all countries in the
world decided to adjust their clocks by half an hour (GMT+30m for
northern hemisphere; GMT-30m for southern hemisphere, plus the normal
one-hour-per-15-degrees correction for longitude) so as to observe a
time half-way between winter and summer time, and then stayed like
that all year round.


Like Newfoundland?

--
Davey.
  #3  
Old November 1st 16, 10:41 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
NY
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Posts: 1,023
Default This week's silly question - working hours 9 AM - 5 PM

"Chris Hogg" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 1 Nov 2016 11:13:32 -0000, "NY" wrote:

With the clocks going back last weekend and everyone moaning about how
dark
it was driving home in the evening, I started to think.

Why is it that the hours of the traditional office working day, 9 AM to 5
PM, were chosen to be asymmetric about noon? If they'd chosen 8 to 4
instead, the mornings and evenings would get dark equally - assuming that
12
noon is the point when the sun is highest in the sky.

I realise that many people in manual jobs traditionally worked shifts
which
were very different from 9-5.


I often think it would be so much easier if all countries in the world
decided to adjust their clocks by half an hour (GMT+30m for northern
hemisphere; GMT-30m for southern hemisphere, plus the normal
one-hour-per-15-degrees correction for longitude) so as to observe a time
half-way between winter and summer time, and then stayed like that all
year
round.


You expect logic? There is none!


Very true.

It also intrigues me that the dates for the changeover between winter and
summer time are not symmetrical about the summer and winter solstices (21
June and 21 December) - as it is, we have 3 months of summer time before 21
June and 4 months after it, when there should be 3 and 3, to give equal
amount of summer and winter time each year, or else 4 and 4, with the clocks
going forward a month earlier (ie around 21 February). I've always wondered
what criteria were used to determine the choice of changeover dates.

  #4  
Old November 1st 16, 10:58 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Mark Carver[_2_]
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Posts: 276
Default This week's silly question - working hours 9 AM - 5 PM

On 01/11/2016 11:41, NY wrote:


It also intrigues me that the dates for the changeover between winter
and summer time are not symmetrical about the summer and winter
solstices (21 June and 21 December) - as it is, we have 3 months of
summer time before 21 June and 4 months after it, when there should be 3
and 3, to give equal amount of summer and winter time each year, or else
4 and 4, with the clocks going forward a month earlier (ie around 21
February). I've always wondered what criteria were used to determine the
choice of changeover dates.


The Americans take it even further, second Sunday in March, to first
Sunday in November. It's to save fuel, (they tell me)


--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.
  #5  
Old November 1st 16, 11:35 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Davey
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Posts: 2,176
Default This week's silly question - working hours 9 AM - 5 PM

On Tue, 1 Nov 2016 11:58:43 +0000
Mark Carver wrote:

On 01/11/2016 11:41, NY wrote:


It also intrigues me that the dates for the changeover between
winter and summer time are not symmetrical about the summer and
winter solstices (21 June and 21 December) - as it is, we have 3
months of summer time before 21 June and 4 months after it, when
there should be 3 and 3, to give equal amount of summer and winter
time each year, or else 4 and 4, with the clocks going forward a
month earlier (ie around 21 February). I've always wondered what
criteria were used to determine the choice of changeover dates.


The Americans take it even further, second Sunday in March, to first
Sunday in November. It's to save fuel, (they tell me)



For a while, they changed clocks at the same time as everybody else.
Bliss, minimal time conversions. Then they changed again, due to some
war or other, and spoiled the whole process. I always say that the
Canadians should have stayed with the rest of the world, just to rove
their independence from the US.

--
Davey.
  #6  
Old November 1st 16, 02:39 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Dave W
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Posts: 233
Default This week's silly question - working hours 9 AM - 5 PM


"NY" wrote in message
o.uk...
"Chris Hogg" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 1 Nov 2016 11:13:32 -0000, "NY" wrote:

With the clocks going back last weekend and everyone moaning about how
dark
it was driving home in the evening, I started to think.

Why is it that the hours of the traditional office working day, 9 AM to 5
PM, were chosen to be asymmetric about noon? If they'd chosen 8 to 4
instead, the mornings and evenings would get dark equally - assuming that
12
noon is the point when the sun is highest in the sky.

I realise that many people in manual jobs traditionally worked shifts
which
were very different from 9-5.


I often think it would be so much easier if all countries in the world
decided to adjust their clocks by half an hour (GMT+30m for northern
hemisphere; GMT-30m for southern hemisphere, plus the normal
one-hour-per-15-degrees correction for longitude) so as to observe a time
half-way between winter and summer time, and then stayed like that all
year
round.


You expect logic? There is none!


Very true.

It also intrigues me that the dates for the changeover between winter and
summer time are not symmetrical about the summer and winter solstices (21
June and 21 December) - as it is, we have 3 months of summer time before
21 June and 4 months after it, when there should be 3 and 3, to give equal
amount of summer and winter time each year, or else 4 and 4, with the
clocks going forward a month earlier (ie around 21 February). I've always
wondered what criteria were used to determine the choice of changeover
dates.

Another factor is that the earliest sunset is 9 days before the winter
solstice, and the latest sunset is 2 days after the summer solstice, which
might explain some of the difference between your 3 and 4 month periods.
--
Dave W


  #7  
Old November 1st 16, 03:28 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 264
Default This week's silly question - working hours 9 AM - 5 PM

On Tue, 1 Nov 2016 15:39:37 -0000
"Dave W" wrote:
"NY" wrote in message
It also intrigues me that the dates for the changeover between winter and
summer time are not symmetrical about the summer and winter solstices (21
June and 21 December) - as it is, we have 3 months of summer time before
21 June and 4 months after it, when there should be 3 and 3, to give equal
amount of summer and winter time each year, or else 4 and 4, with the
clocks going forward a month earlier (ie around 21 February). I've always
wondered what criteria were used to determine the choice of changeover
dates.

Another factor is that the earliest sunset is 9 days before the winter
solstice, and the latest sunset is 2 days after the summer solstice, which
might explain some of the difference between your 3 and 4 month periods.


If the calendar was properly aligned with the seasons the winter solstice
would be jan 1st and the summer would be 1st july.

--
Spud


  #8  
Old November 1st 16, 03:43 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
NY
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,023
Default This week's silly question - working hours 9 AM - 5 PM

wrote in message ...
On Tue, 1 Nov 2016 15:39:37 -0000
"Dave W" wrote:
"NY" wrote in message
It also intrigues me that the dates for the changeover between winter
and
summer time are not symmetrical about the summer and winter solstices
(21
June and 21 December) - as it is, we have 3 months of summer time before
21 June and 4 months after it, when there should be 3 and 3, to give
equal
amount of summer and winter time each year, or else 4 and 4, with the
clocks going forward a month earlier (ie around 21 February). I've
always
wondered what criteria were used to determine the choice of changeover
dates.

Another factor is that the earliest sunset is 9 days before the winter
solstice, and the latest sunset is 2 days after the summer solstice, which
might explain some of the difference between your 3 and 4 month periods.


If the calendar was properly aligned with the seasons the winter solstice
would be jan 1st and the summer would be 1st july.


Very true.

The weirdest thing is that January was named after the Roman (?) god Janus
who held the keys to the old year (which he locked behind him) and the new
year (which he opened ahead of him) - hence 1 January is the stat of the new
year.

Except... it wasn't always the case :-) Until the 1700s, a date in the
middle of March was deemed to be the start of the new year, so in old legal
records and parish registers you see references to 2 February 1704/5 which
signifies the year which started in mid March 1704 and continues until mid
March 1705. I suppose it's a bit like modern car registrations where the
"plus 50" registration numbers (eg 66 = 16+50) denote September 2016 - March
2017.


I'd love to try smoking what the ancients were smoking the day they decided
that Janus was the god of the new year but new year's day (ie when the year
number changed) was about 2 1/2 months later.

Logic? Consistency? Common sense? No sign of anything like that!

  #9  
Old November 1st 16, 04:53 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Roger Mills[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 268
Default This week's silly question - working hours 9 AM - 5 PM

On 01/11/2016 11:13, NY wrote:
With the clocks going back last weekend and everyone moaning about how
dark it was driving home in the evening, I started to think.

Why is it that the hours of the traditional office working day, 9 AM to
5 PM, were chosen to be asymmetric about noon? If they'd chosen 8 to 4
instead, the mornings and evenings would get dark equally - assuming
that 12 noon is the point when the sun is highest in the sky.

I realise that many people in manual jobs traditionally worked shifts
which were very different from 9-5.


I often think it would be so much easier if all countries in the world
decided to adjust their clocks by half an hour (GMT+30m for northern
hemisphere; GMT-30m for southern hemisphere, plus the normal
one-hour-per-15-degrees correction for longitude) so as to observe a
time half-way between winter and summer time, and then stayed like that
all year round.


Why -30m for the southern hemisphere. Surely they do the same as us -
and use 'natural' time in the winter and advance by an hour to 'daylight
saving time' in the summer. So it would need to be +30m if they were to
split the difference.

That said, many countries which are close to the equator - on either
side - don't bother with daylight saving time because their hours of
daylight don't vary much throughout the year.
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.
  #10  
Old November 1st 16, 05:27 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
NY
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,023
Default This week's silly question - working hours 9 AM - 5 PM

"Roger Mills" wrote in message
...
On 01/11/2016 11:13, NY wrote:
I often think it would be so much easier if all countries in the world
decided to adjust their clocks by half an hour (GMT+30m for northern
hemisphere; GMT-30m for southern hemisphere, plus the normal
one-hour-per-15-degrees correction for longitude) so as to observe a
time half-way between winter and summer time, and then stayed like that
all year round.


Why -30m for the southern hemisphere. Surely they do the same as us - and
use 'natural' time in the winter and advance by an hour to 'daylight
saving time' in the summer. So it would need to be +30m if they were to
split the difference.


I'd have thought that the summer-time offset would need to be in the
opposite direction in the southern hemisphere to give the same benefit
(lighter mornings or lighter evenings) as in the northern hemispheres, with
the start/end dates being 3 months before and 4 months after 21 December
(their midsummer's day) rather than with respect to 21 June (our midsummer's
day).

Maybe I'm wrong, and the dates should be as I've said but the shift should
still be +1 hour as in the northern hemisphere (and therefore +30 mins in my
same-average-timezone-for-the-whole-year situation).


I realise that the advantage of summer time increases with latitude, either
northwards or southwards from the equator. Do countries close to the equator
(eg within the Tropics of Capricorn and Cancer, +/- 22.5 degrees) observe
DST?

 




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