"Bill Wright" wrote in message
...
A really cold day here in Yorkshire. Everyone is turning their heating up I
suppose. I've been for a little ride around S Yorks and N Notts this
afternoon, and to my dismay the wind turbines appear to be out of order on
this day of very high demand. They are all either turning very slowly or
not at all. What bad luck that they should all be short of fuel on the same
day, and a day of such high demand too!

If it wasn't for the immense respect I have for the intellectual powers of
our masters I might suppose they they hadn't taken into account the fact
that on very cold winter days there is often very little wind.

Bill

If the wind gets too strong then they have to feather the turbines and stop
them - a bit like a sailing ship would need to reef the sails in a gale.
Other wise the mast might break [in both cases].

On Sat, 21 Jan 2012 01:03:18 -0000
"R. Mark Clayton" wrote:


"Bill Wright" wrote in message
...
A really cold day here in Yorkshire. Everyone is turning their
heating up I suppose. I've been for a little ride around S Yorks and
N Notts this afternoon, and to my dismay the wind turbines appear to
be out of order on this day of very high demand. They are all either
turning very slowly or not at all. What bad luck that they should
all be short of fuel on the same day, and a day of such high demand
too!

If it wasn't for the immense respect I have for the intellectual
powers of our masters I might suppose they they hadn't taken into
account the fact that on very cold winter days there is often very
little wind.

Bill

If the wind gets too strong then they have to feather the turbines
and stop them - a bit like a sailing ship would need to reef the
sails in a gale. Other wise the mast might break [in both cases].



There was a recent discussion about the dubious reliance
by the Government on wind turbines. On one hand there was a guy saying
exactly was stated above, and that this required a number of
conventionally-powered powers stations to be always on standby for when
the wind turbines had to be switched off, or had no wind to drive them,
and that the start-up of them actually created more C02 than if they
just left sufficient gas turbine power stations running at idle,
instantly ready for demand, and ignore wind power completely. But this
was countered by a rep. from the power industry who said that there
were no power plants that had to be switched off and on as wind turbine
farms started and stopped, but that the wind farms' output was just a
part of the Whole Grid supply at any time. Whatever that meant.
So who's right?
--
Davey.

On Sat, 21 Jan 2012 10:51:11 +0000, Davey
wrote:

On Sat, 21 Jan 2012 01:03:18 -0000
"R. Mark Clayton" wrote:


"Bill Wright" wrote in message
...
A really cold day here in Yorkshire. Everyone is turning their
heating up I suppose. I've been for a little ride around S Yorks and
N Notts this afternoon, and to my dismay the wind turbines appear to
be out of order on this day of very high demand. They are all either
turning very slowly or not at all. What bad luck that they should
all be short of fuel on the same day, and a day of such high demand
too!

If it wasn't for the immense respect I have for the intellectual
powers of our masters I might suppose they they hadn't taken into
account the fact that on very cold winter days there is often very
little wind.

Bill

If the wind gets too strong then they have to feather the turbines
and stop them - a bit like a sailing ship would need to reef the
sails in a gale. Other wise the mast might break [in both cases].



There was a recent discussion about the dubious reliance
by the Government on wind turbines. On one hand there was a guy saying
exactly was stated above, and that this required a number of
conventionally-powered powers stations to be always on standby for when
the wind turbines had to be switched off, or had no wind to drive them,
and that the start-up of them actually created more C02 than if they
just left sufficient gas turbine power stations running at idle,
instantly ready for demand, and ignore wind power completely. But this
was countered by a rep. from the power industry who said that there
were no power plants that had to be switched off and on as wind turbine
farms started and stopped, but that the wind farms' output was just a
part of the Whole Grid supply at any time. Whatever that meant.
So who's right?

The answer is very simple and doesn't need endless discussion.

If wind turbines were efficient and cost-effective, developers would
install them without subsidy. But they won't.

Q.E.D.

Perhaps, but the same thing can be said of the nuclear industry.

On Sat, 21 Jan 2012 11:12:32 +0000, lid wrote:

The answer is very simple and doesn't need endless discussion.

If wind turbines were efficient and cost-effective, developers would
install them without subsidy. But they won't.
--
================================================== =======
Please always reply to ng as the email in this post's
header does not exist. Or use a contact address at:
http://www.macfh.co.uk/JavaJive/JavaJive.html
http://www.macfh.co.uk/Macfarlane/Macfarlane.html

On Sat, 21 Jan 2012 11:12:32 +0000, lid wrote:

On Sat, 21 Jan 2012 10:51:11 +0000, Davey
wrote:

On Sat, 21 Jan 2012 01:03:18 -0000
"R. Mark Clayton" wrote:


"Bill Wright" wrote in message
...
A really cold day here in Yorkshire. Everyone is turning their
heating up I suppose. I've been for a little ride around S Yorks and
N Notts this afternoon, and to my dismay the wind turbines appear to
be out of order on this day of very high demand. They are all either
turning very slowly or not at all. What bad luck that they should
all be short of fuel on the same day, and a day of such high demand
too!

If it wasn't for the immense respect I have for the intellectual
powers of our masters I might suppose they they hadn't taken into
account the fact that on very cold winter days there is often very
little wind.

Bill

If the wind gets too strong then they have to feather the turbines
and stop them - a bit like a sailing ship would need to reef the
sails in a gale. Other wise the mast might break [in both cases].



There was a recent discussion about the dubious reliance
by the Government on wind turbines. On one hand there was a guy saying
exactly was stated above, and that this required a number of
conventionally-powered powers stations to be always on standby for when
the wind turbines had to be switched off, or had no wind to drive them,
and that the start-up of them actually created more C02 than if they
just left sufficient gas turbine power stations running at idle,
instantly ready for demand, and ignore wind power completely. But this
was countered by a rep. from the power industry who said that there
were no power plants that had to be switched off and on as wind turbine
farms started and stopped, but that the wind farms' output was just a
part of the Whole Grid supply at any time. Whatever that meant.
So who's right?

The answer is very simple and doesn't need endless discussion.

If wind turbines were efficient and cost-effective, developers would
install them without subsidy. But they won't.

Q.E.D.

The point of wind turbines is not their efficiency or commercial
cost-effectiveness, but their claimed lower contribution to climate
change.

If the use of wind turbines helps to slow down damaging climate change
then that is in itself a justification for their use, and a
justification for subsidies and, indeed, higher electricity prices.

I am not a fan of wind turbines. I'm more interested in tidal current
schemes such as this one:
http://www.marineturbines.com/

Unlike the wind, tidal flows are regular and predictable, and there is
much greater energy potentially available.

--
Peter Duncanson
(in uk.tech.digital-tv)

In article , Java Jive
wrote:
Perhaps, but the same thing can be said of the nuclear industry.

The comment is just another version of the Sir Humphrey "Nothing should
ever be done for the first time." ;-

On Sat, 21 Jan 2012 11:12:32 +0000, lid wrote:

The answer is very simple and doesn't need endless discussion.

If wind turbines were efficient and cost-effective, developers would
install them without subsidy. But they won't.

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

On Sat, 21 Jan 2012 13:24:24 +0000
Peter Duncanson wrote:

On Sat, 21 Jan 2012 11:12:32 +0000, lid wrote:

On Sat, 21 Jan 2012 10:51:11 +0000, Davey
wrote:

On Sat, 21 Jan 2012 01:03:18 -0000
"R. Mark Clayton" wrote:


"Bill Wright" wrote in message
...
A really cold day here in Yorkshire. Everyone is turning their
heating up I suppose. I've been for a little ride around S Yorks
and N Notts this afternoon, and to my dismay the wind turbines
appear to be out of order on this day of very high demand. They
are all either turning very slowly or not at all. What bad luck
that they should all be short of fuel on the same day, and a day
of such high demand too!

If it wasn't for the immense respect I have for the intellectual
powers of our masters I might suppose they they hadn't taken
into account the fact that on very cold winter days there is
often very little wind.

Bill

If the wind gets too strong then they have to feather the turbines
and stop them - a bit like a sailing ship would need to reef the
sails in a gale. Other wise the mast might break [in both cases].



There was a recent discussion about the dubious reliance
by the Government on wind turbines. On one hand there was a guy
saying exactly was stated above, and that this required a number of
conventionally-powered powers stations to be always on standby for
when the wind turbines had to be switched off, or had no wind to
drive them, and that the start-up of them actually created more C02
than if they just left sufficient gas turbine power stations
running at idle, instantly ready for demand, and ignore wind power
completely. But this was countered by a rep. from the power
industry who said that there were no power plants that had to be
switched off and on as wind turbine farms started and stopped, but
that the wind farms' output was just a part of the Whole Grid
supply at any time. Whatever that meant. So who's right?

The answer is very simple and doesn't need endless discussion.

If wind turbines were efficient and cost-effective, developers would
install them without subsidy. But they won't.

Q.E.D.

The point of wind turbines is not their efficiency or commercial
cost-effectiveness, but their claimed lower contribution to climate
change.

If the use of wind turbines helps to slow down damaging climate change
then that is in itself a justification for their use, and a
justification for subsidies and, indeed, higher electricity prices.

Yes, but the claim referred to in the discussion was that, by the time
the backup power stations had been fire up and brought on line, the
overall CO2 emissions had exceeded what they would have been if instead
they had just used constantly running gas turbine power generation.

I am not a fan of wind turbines. I'm more interested in tidal current
schemes such as this one:
http://www.marineturbines.com/

Unlike the wind, tidal flows are regular and predictable, and there is
much greater energy potentially available.

I have been impressed by them for years. I saw a working one in
Portugal about 10 years ago. I agree with you about them for all the
right reasons. Just think how much power could be produced by the
Thames!
--
Davey.