John Legon wrote:

No not 5.1 audio, but Pro Logic audio should make its way through the
system, as long as the MPEG coding is transparent enough. In reality I
think if the audio is anything less than 256kb/s it won't work ?

If that's the case, then you might hope to get surround sound with
movies shown on BBC 1, 2 & 4 but not on ITV 1 or Channel 4 & 5 ... SD,
based on current bit rates.

That's about right in my experience.

--
Mark
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www.paras.org.uk

"Andy Burns" wrote in message
o.uk...
I've just upgraded from a non-HDMI AV amp to an HDMI one, the main input
is my mythTV PC via HDMI (still using audio over SPDIF temporarily) ...
it's nice to have switching on the TV automatically power up the amp too,
and the TV's remote control the amp's volume and input selection.

I have the amp's surround mode set to "auto".

When watching a normal programme (i.e. not a film) the amp correctly
selects Stereo.

When watching something with 5.1 audio (e.g. a film from a freesat HD
channel) the amp automatically selects Dolby Digital and is in full 5.1
mode

When watching a film (from a freesat or freeview SD channel) it never
seems to automatically choose Pro Logic, if I force the setting, the
decoding seems to work, I can hear the 'steering' around the channels. If
the encoding is there, why can't the amp detect it and automatically
enable it?

Or am I fooling myself on material that doesn't have any encoding, and I'm
just hearing a synthetic surround effect?

How much freeview/freesat material does have Pro Logic encoding?


Old analogue terrestial broadcasts with Nicam, used to carry Dolby Pro logic
quite well, so did analog satellite (but not as well).

BBC HD and BBC 1 HD regularly used Dolby Digital, although not always and
sometimes it will be partial (e.g. "[2/0]" so just stereo).

ITV HD uses Dolby Digital much less and to a first approximation I think
they CBA.

What I don't know without trying it out is whether Freeview or Freesat SD
carry surround sound signals or not. I suspect they probably don't because
of the extra bandwidth required.

John Legon wrote:

Mark Carver wrote:

Pro Logic audio should make its way through the
system, as long as the MPEG coding is transparent enough. In reality I
think if the audio is anything less than 256kb/s it won't work ?

If that's the case, then you might hope to get surround sound with
movies shown on BBC 1, 2 & 4 but not on ITV 1 or Channel 4 & 5 ... SD,
based on current bit rates.

I certainly heard surround from DareDevil[1] on Film4 last night, both
freeview and freesat, looking at the snippets I still have on disc, the
freesat signal was 192k MP2

Most of my freesat HD recordings seem to have AC3 2.0 rather than MP2
stereo (if they don't have AC3 5.1, that is) does that have better
bang-per-bit?

The audio bitrates on BBC1HD and BBCHD seem a mixed bag, some of the AC3
2.0 recordings are 384kbps, some of the AC3 5.1 are 256kbps, other BBC
recordings have 192kbps AC3 main audio with 256kbps MP2 audio description

I'll watch out for films on BBC channels to compare and contrast.



[1] I only watched it as a test, honest.

"John Legon" wrote in message
news

If that's the case, then you might hope to get surround sound with
movies shown on BBC 1, 2 & 4 but not on ITV 1 or Channel 4 & 5 ... SD,
based on current bit rates.


James Bond film Living Daylights is on now on ITV4 Freesat and AV Amp is PL
II and we are getting good cinema sound and yes surround as well.
Regards
David

R. Mark Clayton wrote:

What I don't know without trying it out is whether Freeview or Freesat SD
carry surround sound signals or not. I suspect they probably don't because
of the extra bandwidth required.

My current understanding is as follows:-

*SD* services: Terrestrial and satellite use MPEG 1 Layer 2 audio. As stated
already Pro Logic tends to go through the system at the bitrates used by major
broadcasters, but it depends whether the programme has been encoded in that
manner or not.

For *HD* UK satellite, channels use AC-3, in either 2.0 or 5.1 formats, but
I'm told the pain of correctly managing the metadata in the playout systems
does mean other formats can and do leak out from time to time ?

For *HD* DTT it's currently use AAC-LC. again with either 2.0 or 5.1.

BBC and C4 are 5.1 capable. ITV doesn't currently use it. Dunno about C5 ?

In short if you want multi-channel sound then they're only available from HD
transmissions.

--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

www.paras.org.uk

David wrote:
"John Legon" wrote in message
news

If that's the case, then you might hope to get surround sound with
movies shown on BBC 1, 2 & 4 but not on ITV 1 or Channel 4 & 5 ... SD,
based on current bit rates.


James Bond film Living Daylights is on now on ITV4 Freesat and AV Amp is
PL II and we are getting good cinema sound and yes surround as well.
Regards

I've just checked and the audio bit-rate is 192 Kb/s, as it is also on
Film 4, so it seems that a rate of 256 kb/s isn't in fact necessary for
PL surround sound.

John Legon wrote:
David wrote:
"John Legon" wrote in message
news

If that's the case, then you might hope to get surround sound with
movies shown on BBC 1, 2 & 4 but not on ITV 1 or Channel 4 & 5 ... SD,
based on current bit rates.


James Bond film Living Daylights is on now on ITV4 Freesat and AV Amp
is PL II and we are getting good cinema sound and yes surround as well.
Regards

I've just checked and the audio bit-rate is 192 Kb/s, as it is also on
Film 4, so it seems that a rate of 256 kb/s isn't in fact necessary for
PL surround sound.

It's probably more of a Joint vs Discrete stereo thing ?

--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

www.paras.org.uk

Mark Carver wrote:
John Legon wrote:
David wrote:
"John Legon" wrote in message
news
If that's the case, then you might hope to get surround sound with
movies shown on BBC 1, 2 & 4 but not on ITV 1 or Channel 4 & 5 ... SD,
based on current bit rates.


James Bond film Living Daylights is on now on ITV4 Freesat and AV Amp
is PL II and we are getting good cinema sound and yes surround as well.
Regards

I've just checked and the audio bit-rate is 192 Kb/s, as it is also on
Film 4, so it seems that a rate of 256 kb/s isn't in fact necessary
for PL surround sound.

It's probably more of a Joint vs Discrete stereo thing ?

You mean, depending on whether the left and right channels are encoded
separately (in the case of discrete stereo) or as middle/side? That
might account for the difference in bit-rate AFAIK.

On 15/01/2012 11:27, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article5a2dnXfmuYjaPo_SnZ2dnUVZ8lGdnZ2d@brightvie w.co.uk,
Andy wrote:
No, I'm not expecting them to have Dolby Digital, but do they carry
Dolby Pro Logic encoded in their stereo?

Any stereo signal can carry pro logic - that's the point of it. But how
much is made in that these days I don't know.


Yes -- I used to follow the American police series NYPD Blue (sadly
missed). My A/V amp. would never automatically switch to Dolby Surround
(the programmes were recorded this way, certainly the later series) but
if I manually switched I definitely got Dolby Surround/Pro-Logic audio
-- not simulated, for sure. I've also come across this on other Freeview
SD/Freesat SD broadcasts -- the audio is there, just not automatically
decoded. Something to do with PCM sound perhaps?



Clem