On Wed, 14 Jul 2010 12:09:33 +0100, "Gary"
wrote:


"Kennedy McEwen" wrote in message
...
In article AAf%n.247296$_m6.112960@hurricane, Gary
writes

"Ian" wrote in message
...
In message , Kennedy McEwen
writes
In article Dj2%n.225175$k15.24811@hurricane, Stephen
writes
"Gary" wrote in message
news:6HZ_n.180653$m87.37557@hurricane...
I wonder why there aren't any after market 3D TV converters.
Surly any 1080P TV could display in HD 2 images sequentially and a
transmitter like the Sony one would work. with any TV. It could be
added
to the HDMI line in and possibly need a knob on it to adjust the sync
when
first installed.

I guess the problem is that it's a 50 Hz refresh rate on the HDMI
input.
Even if the TV uses a much faster refresh internally, an external
converter
can't access the video path at that stage. So you're stuck with 50 Hz
which
would have to be halved to 25 Hz for each eye. That would mean
intolerable
flicker and probably give people epileptic fits.

Film runs at 24 Hz so it is totally feasible to run at 25 Hz

Film runs at 24 frames per second, but it is projected at either 48 or 72
flicks* per second depending on the projector mechanism specifically to
avoid "intolerable flicker" at 24Hz.

* Each frame of film is exposed in the gate by two or three flashes from
the projector lamp.
--
Kennedy
Yes, Socrates himself is particularly missed;
A lovely little thinker, but a bugger when he's ****ed.
Python Philosophers (replace 'nospam' with 'kennedym' when
replying)

I thought that was only when it was run on a telecine to convert to TV ?

No. I have a distant recollection of this from when I was trainee
projectionist many years ago. The shutter displayed each film frame
twice. This is described in the Wikipedia article. I'm sure that
folowing the references will provide confirmation:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Movie_projector#Shutter

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flicker...lay_frame_rate

Display frame rate

Flicker fusion is important in all technologies for presenting
moving images, nearly all of which depend on presenting a rapid
succession of static images (e.g. the frames in a cinema film, TV
show, or a digital video file). If the frame rate falls below the
flicker fusion threshold for the given viewing conditions, flicker
will be apparent to the observer, and movements of objects on the
film will appear jerky. For the purposes of presenting moving
images, the human flicker fusion threshold is usually taken as 16
hertz (Hz). In actual practice, movies are recorded at 24 frames per
second, and TV cameras operate at 25 or 30 frames per second,
depending on the TV system used.

Even though motion may seem to be continuous at 25 or 30 frame/s,
the brightness may still seem to flicker objectionably. By showing
each frame twice in cinema projection (48 Hz), and using interlace
in television (50 or 60 Hz), a reasonable margin of error for
unusual viewing conditions is achieved in minimising subjective
flicker effects.

--
Peter Duncanson
(in uk.tech.digital-tv)

In article , Gary
writes

"Kennedy McEwen" wrote in message
...
In article AAf%n.247296$_m6.112960@hurricane, Gary
writes

"Ian" wrote in message
...
In message , Kennedy McEwen
writes
In article Dj2%n.225175$k15.24811@hurricane, Stephen
writes
"Gary" wrote in message
news:6HZ_n.180653$m87.37557@hurricane...
I wonder why there aren't any after market 3D TV converters.
Surly any 1080P TV could display in HD 2 images sequentially and a
transmitter like the Sony one would work. with any TV. It could
be added
to the HDMI line in and possibly need a knob on it to adjust the
sync when
first installed.

I guess the problem is that it's a 50 Hz refresh rate on the HDMI
input.
Even if the TV uses a much faster refresh internally, an external
converter
can't access the video path at that stage. So you're stuck with 50
Hz which
would have to be halved to 25 Hz for each eye. That would mean
intolerable
flicker and probably give people epileptic fits.

Film runs at 24 Hz so it is totally feasible to run at 25 Hz

Film runs at 24 frames per second, but it is projected at either 48
or 72 flicks* per second depending on the projector mechanism
specifically to avoid "intolerable flicker" at 24Hz.

* Each frame of film is exposed in the gate by two or three flashes
from the projector lamp.

I thought that was only when it was run on a telecine to convert to TV ?

Nope, although it is done on telecine to match the field rate of the TV
- itself double the TV frame rate for exactly the same reason: to avoid
objectionable flicker at 25/30Hz.

For projection the film is advanced at its native frame rate and each
frame flashed onto the screen either 2 or 3 times by a shutter mechanism
in the projector. See the Shutter section in:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Movie_projector
--
Kennedy
Yes, Socrates himself is particularly missed;
A lovely little thinker, but a bugger when he's ****ed.
Python Philosophers (replace 'nospam' with 'kennedym' when replying)

"Kennedy McEwen" wrote in message
...
In article , Gary
writes

"Kennedy McEwen" wrote in message
...
In article AAf%n.247296$_m6.112960@hurricane, Gary
writes

"Ian" wrote in message
...
In message , Kennedy McEwen
writes
In article Dj2%n.225175$k15.24811@hurricane, Stephen
writes
"Gary" wrote in message
news:6HZ_n.180653$m87.37557@hurricane...
I wonder why there aren't any after market 3D TV converters.
Surly any 1080P TV could display in HD 2 images sequentially and
a
transmitter like the Sony one would work. with any TV. It could be
added
to the HDMI line in and possibly need a knob on it to adjust the
sync when
first installed.

I guess the problem is that it's a 50 Hz refresh rate on the HDMI
input.
Even if the TV uses a much faster refresh internally, an external
converter
can't access the video path at that stage. So you're stuck with 50 Hz
which
would have to be halved to 25 Hz for each eye. That would mean
intolerable
flicker and probably give people epileptic fits.

Film runs at 24 Hz so it is totally feasible to run at 25 Hz

Film runs at 24 frames per second, but it is projected at either 48 or
72 flicks* per second depending on the projector mechanism specifically
to avoid "intolerable flicker" at 24Hz.

* Each frame of film is exposed in the gate by two or three flashes from
the projector lamp.

I thought that was only when it was run on a telecine to convert to TV ?

Nope, although it is done on telecine to match the field rate of the TV -
itself double the TV frame rate for exactly the same reason: to avoid
objectionable flicker at 25/30Hz.

For projection the film is advanced at its native frame rate and each
frame flashed onto the screen either 2 or 3 times by a shutter mechanism
in the projector. See the Shutter section in:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Movie_projector
--
It would be easy to pulse the glasses in sync in the same way . Problem
solved

Why has no one done this?

On Fri, 30 Jul 2010 11:47:33 +0100, "Gary"
wrote:


"Kennedy McEwen" wrote in message
...
In article , Gary
writes

"Kennedy McEwen" wrote in message
...
In article AAf%n.247296$_m6.112960@hurricane, Gary
writes

"Ian" wrote in message
...
In message , Kennedy McEwen
writes
In article Dj2%n.225175$k15.24811@hurricane, Stephen
writes
"Gary" wrote in message
news:6HZ_n.180653$m87.37557@hurricane...
I wonder why there aren't any after market 3D TV converters.
Surly any 1080P TV could display in HD 2 images sequentially and
a
transmitter like the Sony one would work. with any TV. It could be
added
to the HDMI line in and possibly need a knob on it to adjust the
sync when
first installed.

I guess the problem is that it's a 50 Hz refresh rate on the HDMI
input.
Even if the TV uses a much faster refresh internally, an external
converter
can't access the video path at that stage. So you're stuck with 50 Hz
which
would have to be halved to 25 Hz for each eye. That would mean
intolerable
flicker and probably give people epileptic fits.

Film runs at 24 Hz so it is totally feasible to run at 25 Hz

Film runs at 24 frames per second, but it is projected at either 48 or
72 flicks* per second depending on the projector mechanism specifically
to avoid "intolerable flicker" at 24Hz.

* Each frame of film is exposed in the gate by two or three flashes from
the projector lamp.

I thought that was only when it was run on a telecine to convert to TV ?

Nope, although it is done on telecine to match the field rate of the TV -
itself double the TV frame rate for exactly the same reason: to avoid
objectionable flicker at 25/30Hz.

For projection the film is advanced at its native frame rate and each
frame flashed onto the screen either 2 or 3 times by a shutter mechanism
in the projector. See the Shutter section in:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Movie_projector
--
It would be easy to pulse the glasses in sync in the same way . Problem
solved

Why has no one done this?

What glasses? The description is of ordinary bog-standard 2D projection.

This thread has drifted from 3D to 2D.

--
Peter Duncanson
(in uk.tech.digital-tv)

"Peter Duncanson" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 30 Jul 2010 11:47:33 +0100, "Gary"
wrote:


"Kennedy McEwen" wrote in message
...
In article , Gary
writes

"Kennedy McEwen" wrote in message
.. .
In article AAf%n.247296$_m6.112960@hurricane, Gary
writes

"Ian" wrote in message
.. .
In message , Kennedy McEwen
writes
In article Dj2%n.225175$k15.24811@hurricane, Stephen
writes
"Gary" wrote in message
news:6HZ_n.180653$m87.37557@hurricane.. .
I wonder why there aren't any after market 3D TV converters.
Surly any 1080P TV could display in HD 2 images sequentially
and
a
transmitter like the Sony one would work. with any TV. It could
be
added
to the HDMI line in and possibly need a knob on it to adjust the
sync when
first installed.

I guess the problem is that it's a 50 Hz refresh rate on the HDMI
input.
Even if the TV uses a much faster refresh internally, an external
converter
can't access the video path at that stage. So you're stuck with 50
Hz
which
would have to be halved to 25 Hz for each eye. That would mean
intolerable
flicker and probably give people epileptic fits.

Film runs at 24 Hz so it is totally feasible to run at 25 Hz

Film runs at 24 frames per second, but it is projected at either 48 or
72 flicks* per second depending on the projector mechanism
specifically
to avoid "intolerable flicker" at 24Hz.

* Each frame of film is exposed in the gate by two or three flashes
from
the projector lamp.

I thought that was only when it was run on a telecine to convert to TV ?

Nope, although it is done on telecine to match the field rate of the
TV -
itself double the TV frame rate for exactly the same reason: to avoid
objectionable flicker at 25/30Hz.

For projection the film is advanced at its native frame rate and each
frame flashed onto the screen either 2 or 3 times by a shutter mechanism
in the projector. See the Shutter section in:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Movie_projector
--
It would be easy to pulse the glasses in sync in the same way . Problem
solved

Why has no one done this?

What glasses? The description is of ordinary bog-standard 2D projection.

This thread has drifted from 3D to 2D.

--
Peter Duncanson
(in uk.tech.digital-tv)

My original point was that any TV with progressive could do 3D with an
adaptor but someone said the flicker would be unacceptable. well double rate
the classes and sorted.
Still on topic.

On Fri, 30 Jul 2010 15:19:39 +0100, "Gary"
wrote:


"Peter Duncanson" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 30 Jul 2010 11:47:33 +0100, "Gary"
wrote:


"Kennedy McEwen" wrote in message
...
In article , Gary
writes

"Kennedy McEwen" wrote in message
. ..
In article AAf%n.247296$_m6.112960@hurricane, Gary
writes

"Ian" wrote in message
. ..
In message , Kennedy McEwen
writes
In article Dj2%n.225175$k15.24811@hurricane, Stephen
writes
"Gary" wrote in message
news:6HZ_n.180653$m87.37557@hurricane. ..
I wonder why there aren't any after market 3D TV converters.
Surly any 1080P TV could display in HD 2 images sequentially
and
a
transmitter like the Sony one would work. with any TV. It could
be
added
to the HDMI line in and possibly need a knob on it to adjust the
sync when
first installed.

I guess the problem is that it's a 50 Hz refresh rate on the HDMI
input.
Even if the TV uses a much faster refresh internally, an external
converter
can't access the video path at that stage. So you're stuck with 50
Hz
which
would have to be halved to 25 Hz for each eye. That would mean
intolerable
flicker and probably give people epileptic fits.

Film runs at 24 Hz so it is totally feasible to run at 25 Hz

Film runs at 24 frames per second, but it is projected at either 48 or
72 flicks* per second depending on the projector mechanism
specifically
to avoid "intolerable flicker" at 24Hz.

* Each frame of film is exposed in the gate by two or three flashes
from
the projector lamp.

I thought that was only when it was run on a telecine to convert to TV ?

Nope, although it is done on telecine to match the field rate of the
TV -
itself double the TV frame rate for exactly the same reason: to avoid
objectionable flicker at 25/30Hz.

For projection the film is advanced at its native frame rate and each
frame flashed onto the screen either 2 or 3 times by a shutter mechanism
in the projector. See the Shutter section in:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Movie_projector
--
It would be easy to pulse the glasses in sync in the same way . Problem
solved

Why has no one done this?

What glasses? The description is of ordinary bog-standard 2D projection.

This thread has drifted from 3D to 2D.

--
Peter Duncanson
(in uk.tech.digital-tv)

My original point was that any TV with progressive could do 3D with an
adaptor but someone said the flicker would be unacceptable. well double rate
the classes and sorted.
Still on topic.

Ah. OK.

--
Peter Duncanson
(in uk.tech.digital-tv)

On Fri, 30 Jul 2010 15:21:46 +0100, Peter Duncanson
wrote:

On Fri, 30 Jul 2010 15:19:39 +0100, "Gary"
wrote:


"Peter Duncanson" wrote in message
. ..
On Fri, 30 Jul 2010 11:47:33 +0100, "Gary"
wrote:


"Kennedy McEwen" wrote in message
.. .
In article , Gary
writes

"Kennedy McEwen" wrote in message
.. .
In article AAf%n.247296$_m6.112960@hurricane, Gary
writes

"Ian" wrote in message
.. .
In message , Kennedy McEwen
writes
In article Dj2%n.225175$k15.24811@hurricane, Stephen
writes
"Gary" wrote in message
news:6HZ_n.180653$m87.37557@hurricane.. .
I wonder why there aren't any after market 3D TV converters.
Surly any 1080P TV could display in HD 2 images sequentially
and
a
transmitter like the Sony one would work. with any TV. It could
be
added
to the HDMI line in and possibly need a knob on it to adjust the
sync when
first installed.

I guess the problem is that it's a 50 Hz refresh rate on the HDMI
input.
Even if the TV uses a much faster refresh internally, an external
converter
can't access the video path at that stage. So you're stuck with 50
Hz
which
would have to be halved to 25 Hz for each eye. That would mean
intolerable
flicker and probably give people epileptic fits.

Film runs at 24 Hz so it is totally feasible to run at 25 Hz

Film runs at 24 frames per second, but it is projected at either 48 or
72 flicks* per second depending on the projector mechanism
specifically
to avoid "intolerable flicker" at 24Hz.

* Each frame of film is exposed in the gate by two or three flashes
from
the projector lamp.

I thought that was only when it was run on a telecine to convert to TV ?

Nope, although it is done on telecine to match the field rate of the
TV -
itself double the TV frame rate for exactly the same reason: to avoid
objectionable flicker at 25/30Hz.

For projection the film is advanced at its native frame rate and each
frame flashed onto the screen either 2 or 3 times by a shutter mechanism
in the projector. See the Shutter section in:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Movie_projector
--
It would be easy to pulse the glasses in sync in the same way . Problem
solved

Why has no one done this?

What glasses? The description is of ordinary bog-standard 2D projection.

This thread has drifted from 3D to 2D.

--
Peter Duncanson
(in uk.tech.digital-tv)

My original point was that any TV with progressive could do 3D with an
adaptor but someone said the flicker would be unacceptable. well double rate
the classes and sorted.
Still on topic.

Ah. OK.

Why the need for a TV? (apart from the tuner bit) There exist
standard lcd glasses that supposedly can give the impression a 60in
picture that can take any source (I know mostly SD quality). About
£150 each. So if the set had two lcd's one for each eye showing
alternate 3D lines. Surely no need for the TV in the room to be 3D.
You have a buy a set of glasses for each person anyway. So surely
this gives the best of both worlds and would be cheaper overall. You
keep the same TV and just have the adaptor. Just a case of making the
small LCD of HD quality. Perhaps SD quality may be sufficient for most
programmes!

steve

"Gary" wrote in message
news:ZbB4o.4414$MT5.1408@hurricane...

"Peter Duncanson" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 30 Jul 2010 11:47:33 +0100, "Gary"
wrote:


"Kennedy McEwen" wrote in message
...
In article , Gary
writes

"Kennedy McEwen" wrote in message
. ..
In article AAf%n.247296$_m6.112960@hurricane, Gary
writes

"Ian" wrote in message
. ..
In message , Kennedy McEwen
writes
In article Dj2%n.225175$k15.24811@hurricane, Stephen
writes
"Gary" wrote in message
news:6HZ_n.180653$m87.37557@hurricane. ..
I wonder why there aren't any after market 3D TV converters.
Surly any 1080P TV could display in HD 2 images sequentially
and
a
transmitter like the Sony one would work. with any TV. It could
be
added
to the HDMI line in and possibly need a knob on it to adjust the
sync when
first installed.

I guess the problem is that it's a 50 Hz refresh rate on the HDMI
input.
Even if the TV uses a much faster refresh internally, an external
converter
can't access the video path at that stage. So you're stuck with 50
Hz
which
would have to be halved to 25 Hz for each eye. That would mean
intolerable
flicker and probably give people epileptic fits.

Film runs at 24 Hz so it is totally feasible to run at 25 Hz

Film runs at 24 frames per second, but it is projected at either 48
or
72 flicks* per second depending on the projector mechanism
specifically
to avoid "intolerable flicker" at 24Hz.

* Each frame of film is exposed in the gate by two or three flashes
from
the projector lamp.

I thought that was only when it was run on a telecine to convert to TV
?

Nope, although it is done on telecine to match the field rate of the
TV -
itself double the TV frame rate for exactly the same reason: to avoid
objectionable flicker at 25/30Hz.

For projection the film is advanced at its native frame rate and each
frame flashed onto the screen either 2 or 3 times by a shutter
mechanism
in the projector. See the Shutter section in:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Movie_projector
--
It would be easy to pulse the glasses in sync in the same way . Problem
solved

Why has no one done this?

What glasses? The description is of ordinary bog-standard 2D projection.

This thread has drifted from 3D to 2D.

--
Peter Duncanson
(in uk.tech.digital-tv)

My original point was that any TV with progressive could do 3D with an
adaptor but someone said the flicker would be unacceptable. well double
rate the classes and sorted.

Idiot. You can't just blink them on twice quickly in succession, they have
to be evenly spaced, therefore you can't serve both eyes from one screen
unless the screen changes too.

--

Brian Gregory. (In the UK)

To email me remove the letter vee.



Still on topic.