In article
,
wrote:
The main issue that people are unhappy about is immigration.

It may be to you. And if you have a bee in your bonnet it's not usual to
believe everyone thinks the same as you.

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Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article
,
wrote:
On Jul 10, 4:14 pm, Albert Ross wrote:
On Fri, 9 Jul 2010 11:10:02 -0700 (PDT), "

wrote:
This business of ignoring the concerns of ordinary people will
rebound in spades before long, and that won't help anyone.

On the other hand maybe your concerns differ significantly from those
of the rest of us Ordinary People.

I meet a lot of people, from all walks of life. I listen to them. I
constantly get the impression that many of their concerns are ignored or
marginalised by mainstream politicians. It surprises me how many young
people feel that way. It's worrying because if they became totally
disenchanted or disillusioned with the democratic process we could be in
real trouble.

Much the same experience and concern for me. I also meet various people and
am concerned by how many think 'politics' is a nasty business that doesn't
deliver what they would want.

The main issue that people are unhappy about is immigration.

That is where my experience is quite different to yours. Apart from places
like this newsgroups I never hear anyone saying that. In the real world I
find people have many other concerns they feel are more pressing. Although
a thread of "waste of time expecting anything from politicians" is a common
one.

My own impression is that people tend to worry much more about local issues
that may be irrelevant or different to people 30 miles away. So a current
example here is a group called 'CLAN' who take over a local school for a
week to run a profitably organised 'event' for 'Christians'. That may seem
fine. But they make a *lot* of noise and cause a lot of disturbance to the
surrounding area. You might think self-proclaimed 'Christians' running a
'Christian' event would be good neighbours to others and show concern to
present a good image to others. But last year's event was essentially noise
from 8am to 10:30pm day after day. Around 5000 people in a set of big tents
with PA systems blaring, etc.

Hence many people here (in a small area) are worried about 'visitors'. But
not really about 'immigrants'. And despite raising this with local
councillors (those nice 'local democracy' LibDems) the event is set ot be
repeated with a larger attendence in a couple of weeks. As a result many
people think it is a total waste of time expecting 'politicians' to do
anything. The cynical view is that the council just want to take the money
from the event and ignore the hundreds of people who are upset and whose
lives are blighted for the week.

I live far enough away that the noise has been relatively minor here. But
it is still audible here even with all our (double glazed) windows and
doors shut. Hundreds of people live in houses adjacent to the land and
school being used. For them it must be hell. And of course on a hot July
day/night people need to leave some windows open to keep cool. So I suspect
many people will be praying for rain, wind, and cold for the relevant week!
More chance they feel of help that way than from 'politicians'. :-)

Certain irony in a group of self-proclaimed 'Christians' showing how they
feel by bringing such hell to others to declare how 'Christian' they are.
No doubt motivated by a desire to maje a generous offer of a chance for
even the *non* 'Christians' around them to show how they can tolerate and
forgive, eh? ;-

That said, my impression is that 'CLAN' is really just a money-making
scheme that has 'Christians' as its punters. Rock concert equivalent for
'believers'. The money-changers own the temple - or at least rent it for
the week and leave the mess behind them when they go... :-)

Slainte,

Jim

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In article , J G Miller
wrote:

I would suggest that the main issue that people are most unhappy about
is the state of the economy and the fear that they are going to lose
their job.


....and are then prey to cheap politicians and others in the media who
peddle "blame the chosen low-status and powerless group to kick for all
the problems". This gives people an easy target and diverts them from
really thinking about the real causes of the problems.

Slainte,

Jim

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In article ,
J G Miller wrote:
On Saturday, July 10th, 2010 at 18:16:26h -0700,
William Wright's Aerials observed:

The main issue that people are unhappy about is immigration.

Yes they have been unhappy about immigration ever since Enoch
Powell encouraged large scale immigration of people from
the Carribean to fill up low paying jobs in the National
Health Service and London Transport.


I think you've got your politicians mixed up. Immiagration of the type you
suugest began in 1948 - under a Labour Government. At that time Enoch
Powell was in opposition.

Exploiting this issue for political purposes has always
struck an empathetic cord with the xenophobic English.


Enoch Powell wanted to limit the numbers of 'coloured' immigrants

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In article ,
charles wrote:

Enoch Powell wanted to limit the numbers of 'coloured' immigrants

How many are 100 percent transparent?... and how would we know? So I guess
he felt he had no choice but to let them in. 8-]

Slainte,

Jim

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On Sun, 11 Jul 2010 16:17:34 +0100, Charles wrote:

I think you've got your politicians mixed up.

No I do not have my politicians mixed up at all.

Immiagration of the type you suugest began in 1948 -
under a Labour Government.

The Labour administration of 1948 did indeed start to
invite immigrants to fill roles in newly created NHS,
but the large scale program of recruitment did not
get underway until the subsequent Conservative administrations
which enlarged the program considerably.

At that time Enoch Powell was in opposition.

How could he be a member of the Westminster Parliament
opposition in 1948 when he was first elected to the Westminster
Parliament in the 1950 General Election?

Enoch Powell wanted to limit the numbers of 'coloured' immigrants

Only in later years later when it was a political tool to boost his populist
appeal and win back support from working class people whom he had alienated
by his previous pro-immigration stance.

From http://www.bbc.co.uk/caribbean/news/story/2008/06/080620_windrush2.shtml

QUOTE
Later, Enoch Powell, the Tory Health Minister from 1960-1963, was to
invite women from the Caribbean to Britain to train as nurses.
UNQUOTE

From http://www.fact-index.COM/e/en/enoch_powell.html

QUOTE

Powell's only major cabinet post was as Minister for Health, in which he
encouraged a large number of Commonwealth immigrants into the understaffed
National Health Service.

Prior to this, many non-white immigrants were often obliged to take the jobs
that no one else wanted (eg. street cleansing, night-shift assembly production
lines), often paid considerably less than their white counterparts.

Powell was vehemently opposed by the Trade Union movement (who feared that
immigrants were being used by capitalists to keep wages low by artificially
increasing competition for jobs), but there is no doubt that in easing
coloured immigrants into what was considered a prestigious form of career,
he boosted the confidence of the immigrant population and helped lay the
foundations of a future immigrant-descended permanent Afro-Caribbean and
Asian middle class in Britain.

UNQUOTE

One should also remember that Enoch Powell whom some love to proclaim
as the champion of ordinary white people was the man who as Minister
of Health was responsible for the Thalidomide tragedy.

No compassion for victims of his government's stupidity;
no compassion for immigrants whom he had invited to England.

From

http://blogs.wsj.COM/iainmartin/2010/01/14/the-thalidomide-scandal-and-the-forgotten-role-of-enoch-powell/

QUOTE

In all the attention paid to the thalidomide story, Powell’s crucial role
in the long nightmare has been neglected.

He was a baffling figure who ricocheted from the impeccably lucid to the
paranoid crazy…

Like many I was puzzled by the loose screw that turned Powell’s brilliance
corrosively inward.

That he refused to help the dispirited and powerless thalidomide families
is hard to understand or forgive.

He had received a delegation of affected parents in January 1963 and rejected
their every request. No to a public inquiry on the origins of the disaster.
No to immediately setting up a drug-testing centre —

“anyone who takes an aspirin puts himself at risk�.

No to a public warning against using any of the thalidomide pills that might
still be in medicine cabinets —

“a scaremonger publicity stunt�.

No to giving a statement after the meeting —

“no need to bring the press into this�.

And no to his setting eyes on a thalidomide child.

UNQUOTE

No, the BMP are racists, real racist loonies who think that non-whites
are inferior. I merely believe that...

Here we have a rehash of the standard "I'm not racist, but..." line. It's
the layman's rubbish pre-emptive justification for saying something
massively racist in an age where it's unacceptable.

I'm not even going to dignify the rest of Bill's post with a put-down.


jamie.

Quite agree Jamie. I used to enjoy reading Bill's posts, but I am genuinely
dissapointed with his views on this. He thinks referring ironically to
certain people as Wogs, is humourous and makes him look all cool and non
racist. Shame.

phil

On Sat, 10 Jul 2010 12:53:17 +0000 (UTC), J G Miller
wrote:

On Sat, 10 Jul 2010 09:56:17 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

It is anti-establishment.

Being anti-establishment is inherently left wing biased,
leaning towards anarchism.

Unless the government is truly left wing. And we haven't had one of
those since the 1970s.
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On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 09:42:15 +0100, Mark wrote:

Unless the government is truly left wing. And we haven't had one of
those since the 1970s.

1944 really.

On Saturday, July 10th, 2010 at 18:16:26h -0700,
William Wright's Aerials observed:

and that we allow people in who have no intention of integrating
and who just want to form enclaves within the UK.

Rather like in keeping with this course of action by the
City of Stoke on Trent one presumes?

http://news.bbc.co.UK/2/hi/england/stoke_and_staffordshire/10596808.stm