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uk.tech.digital-tv (Digital TV - General) (uk.tech.digital-tv) Discussion of all matters technical in origin related to the reception of digital television transmissions, be they via satellite, terrestrial or cable. Advertising is forbidden, with no exceptions.

Ham radio Interference



 
 
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  #1  
Old February 25th 09, 04:18 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Dave H[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 14
Default Ham radio Interference

I have a Ham Radio enthusiast living some 200 yards away with a big set
of aerianalia. When he turns this in my direction and talks to his
contact, my picture on Sky jumps all over the place to the extent it is
unwatchable. Just like having the vertical hold set wrong. The sound on
my amplifier also cuts out when he is talking. Sky box is connected to a
video recorder by scart and then to the TV, in the next room, by RF
output (they don't make scart leads long enough).

(Turned on the electric keyboard the other day and there he was in
glorious SSB blasting out from the speakers)

I am also getting some mild noise-type interference on other occasions
but cannot be sure it is the same source.

Have been round to see him, nice chap, but he doesn't think he is doing
anything wrong and is not obliged to solve my problem. He has mentioned
some bit of equipment I could put in the 'line',even had a root around
his garage to see if he had one.

Does anyone know the legal position on this type of interference?

If I can't resolve it with him, to what body do I complain? Radio
Society of Great Britain? Ofcom?

Any advice would be welcome on the above or how I can minimise the
interference with a gadget.


David
  #2  
Old February 25th 09, 04:44 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Steve Terry[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,539
Default Ham radio Interference

"Dave H" wrote in message
...
I have a Ham Radio enthusiast living some 200 yards away with a big set of
aerianalia. When he turns this in my direction and talks to his contact, my
picture on Sky jumps all over the place to the extent it is unwatchable.
Just like having the vertical hold set wrong. The sound on my amplifier
also cuts out when he is talking. Sky box is connected to a video recorder
by scart and then to the TV, in the next room, by RF output (they don't
make scart leads long enough).

(Turned on the electric keyboard the other day and there he was in
glorious SSB blasting out from the speakers)

I am also getting some mild noise-type interference on other occasions but
cannot be sure it is the same source.

Have been round to see him, nice chap, but he doesn't think he is doing
anything wrong and is not obliged to solve my problem.

snip

As long as he has checked the output of this TX to be clean, he hasn't.

You will have to contact Ofcom, who will help you fit filters to your
equipment that isn't supposed to receive radio signals.

Don't worry, it's very unlikely you'll be prosecuted for receiving
transmitions you aren't licensed to

Steve Terry



  #3  
Old February 25th 09, 04:51 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Erica Nurney[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default Ham radio Interference

On 25 Feb, 16:18, Dave H wrote:
I have a Ham Radio enthusiast living some 200 yards away with a big set
of aerianalia. When he turns this in my direction and talks to his
contact, my picture on Sky jumps all over the place to the extent it is
unwatchable. Just like having the vertical hold set wrong. The sound on
my amplifier also cuts out when he is talking. Sky box is connected to a
video recorder by scart and then to the TV, in the next room, by RF
output (they don't make scart leads long enough).

(Turned on the electric keyboard the other day and there he was in
glorious SSB blasting out from the speakers)

I am also getting some mild noise-type interference on other occasions
but cannot be sure it is the same source.

Have been round to see him, nice chap, but he doesn't think he is doing
anything wrong and is not obliged to solve my problem. He has mentioned
some bit of equipment I could put in the 'line',even had a root around
his garage to see if he had one.

Does anyone know the legal position on this type of interference?

If I can't resolve it with him, to what body do I complain? Radio
Society of Great Britain? Ofcom?

Any advice would be welcome on the above or how I can minimise the
interference with a gadget.

David


What he is doing is definitely wrong (ie illegal) if it can be proven
that it is his equipment causing the interference. I work on building
electrical control panels for machinery and we have go though all
sorts of standards and regulations hoops and spend thousands of pounds
to ensure our equipment does not ruin people's TV reception, amongst
other things - it is part of the CE marking of electrical equipment.

He has a right to use his amateur radio equipment, just as much as you
have a right to have interference-free TV reception, it is best to
reach a compromise and possibly accept his offer of filters etc. If
he is buggering up your reception, it's a fair bet that your
neighbours might be suffering as well so he might be providing filters
to a lot of people.

The regulatory body used to be the Post Office, I guess OfCom might be
the first place to try nowadays.

  #4  
Old February 25th 09, 05:52 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Ian Jackson[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,968
Default Ham radio Interference

In message
,
Erica Nurney writes
On 25 Feb, 16:18, Dave H wrote:
I have a Ham Radio enthusiast living some 200 yards away with a big set
of aerianalia. When he turns this in my direction and talks to his
contact, my picture on Sky jumps all over the place to the extent it is
unwatchable. Just like having the vertical hold set wrong. The sound on
my amplifier also cuts out when he is talking. Sky box is connected to a
video recorder by scart and then to the TV, in the next room, by RF
output (they don't make scart leads long enough).

(Turned on the electric keyboard the other day and there he was in
glorious SSB blasting out from the speakers)

I am also getting some mild noise-type interference on other occasions
but cannot be sure it is the same source.

Have been round to see him, nice chap, but he doesn't think he is doing
anything wrong and is not obliged to solve my problem. He has mentioned
some bit of equipment I could put in the 'line',even had a root around
his garage to see if he had one.

Does anyone know the legal position on this type of interference?

If I can't resolve it with him, to what body do I complain? Radio
Society of Great Britain? Ofcom?

Any advice would be welcome on the above or how I can minimise the
interference with a gadget.

David


What he is doing is definitely wrong (ie illegal) if it can be proven
that it is his equipment causing the interference.


It's not quite as simple as that. Although his equipment is 'causing'
the interference, it's extremely unlikely that it is technically at
fault. It's simply that the amateur is transmitting, and the affected
equipment is susceptible to picking up such transmissions.

I work on building
electrical control panels for machinery and we have go though all
sorts of standards and regulations hoops and spend thousands of pounds
to ensure our equipment does not ruin people's TV reception, amongst
other things - it is part of the CE marking of electrical equipment.

The technical requirements are not the same. This sort of equipment is
not expected to transmit RF signals. If it does (and it often does),
such emissions must be suppressed to a specified level in order to
ensure that the possibility of interference is minimised.

He has a right to use his amateur radio equipment, just as much as you
have a right to have interference-free TV reception,


While he has a right to use his amateur radio equipment, he will be
expected to take reasonable steps to minimise the possibility of
interference in the immediate vicinity. It would be unwise for him to
ignore the problem.

it is best to
reach a compromise and possibly accept his offer of filters etc.


In most cases, it is essential to have an active and friendly mutual
co-operation between the amateur and the owner of the affected
equipment. Note that it might not simply be a question of 'fitting a
filter'. There may more to it than that.

If
he is buggering up your reception, it's a fair bet that your
neighbours might be suffering as well


Maybe - maybe not. Is he causing interference in his own home? The
affected equipment is 200 yards from the amateur. That's quite a long
way for interference to occur.

so he might be providing filters
to a lot of people.

Although they have no obligation to do so, most radio amateurs are quite
happy to provide filters and other 'gadgets' if it solves the problem.

The regulatory body used to be the Post Office, I guess OfCom might be
the first place to try nowadays.

These days, Ofcom can provide only limited help. It would be better to
work with the radio amateur to achieve a mutually acceptable solution.
If necessary, he may be able to get advice and help from the RSGB and,
indeed, Ofcom.
--
Ian
  #5  
Old February 25th 09, 05:58 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Bill Wright
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8,408
Default Ham radio Interference


"Dave H" wrote in message
...

Any advice would be welcome on the above or how I can minimise the
interference with a gadget.


In theory, if he isn't radiating out of band it comes down to your equipment
lacking sufficient 'electromagnetic compatibility. In reality, if he is
running hundreds of watts into a high gain beam and pointing it at your
house there's no way your equipment can be expected to tolerate it. The
field strength will be absolutely enormous. You might be able to minimise
the problems, but I doubt if you'll eliminate them.

Depending on the topography, it can help if he tilts his beam upwards a bit.

If the matter can't be resolved by technical means you could ask him to
avoid pointing his aerial in your direction and to avoid transmitting at
times when you are likely to be watching TV. He could also reduce the power.
These are reasonable requests, and a refusal would be very un-neighbourly.
If he won't co-operate, you will have to complain immediately on every
occasion when the interference occurs. Either knock on his door or ring him
up. If you complain and the interference continues, ring or knock again,
repeatedly, until it stops.

These people should remember that in the real world their neighbours are
going to buy equipment which will not withstand the massive field strengths
they like to generate. To keep doing it when all possible supression
measures have failed is no better than having a smoky bonfire on washing
day, or a car with no silencer. It's beside the point that the problem is
technically the responsibility of the TV viewer. The hams should remember
that their hobby was founded by a fraternity that boasted of good manners
and consideration for others.

Bill


  #6  
Old February 25th 09, 06:13 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Graham.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 442
Default Ham radio Interference


I have a Ham Radio enthusiast living some 200 yards away with a big set
of aerianalia. When he turns this in my direction and talks to his
contact, my picture on Sky jumps all over the place to the extent it is
unwatchable. Just like having the vertical hold set wrong. The sound on my
amplifier also cuts out when he is talking. Sky box is connected to a
video recorder by scart and then to the TV, in the next room, by RF output
(they don't make scart leads long enough).

(Turned on the electric keyboard the other day and there he was in
glorious SSB blasting out from the speakers)

I am also getting some mild noise-type interference on other occasions but
cannot be sure it is the same source.

Have been round to see him, nice chap, but he doesn't think he is doing
anything wrong and is not obliged to solve my problem. He has mentioned
some bit of equipment I could put in the 'line',even had a root around his
garage to see if he had one.

Does anyone know the legal position on this type of interference?

If I can't resolve it with him, to what body do I complain? Radio Society
of Great Britain? Ofcom?

Any advice would be welcome on the above or how I can minimise the
interference with a gadget.


We need to ascertain how the interference is getting in to your equipment

Your description seems to point to interference to video and audio
base-band.

You have no TV in the room with the satellite box? Only a VCR?
What happens if you make a recording from the satellite box when the
interference is present? When you replay the tape has the interference
also been recorded?

Also make a recording with all unnecessary leads disconnected, including
the RF cable to the TV, to eliminate these from acting as aerials.

You mention an audio amplifier but don't tell us how it is connected to
your system (If indeed it is).

One of the worst cases of RFI I dealt with was an electronic keyboard
(actually an electronic organ), but that was 30 years ago, I can only hope
the modern ones are more immune!

What bands is the amateur operating on?

--
Graham.

%Profound_observation%


  #7  
Old February 25th 09, 06:55 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Graham.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 442
Default Ham radio Interference



What he is doing is definitely wrong (ie illegal) if it can be proven
that it is his equipment causing the interference. I work on building
electrical control panels for machinery and we have go though all
sorts of standards and regulations hoops and spend thousands of pounds
to ensure our equipment does not ruin people's TV reception, amongst
other things - it is part of the CE marking of electrical equipment.

He has a right to use his amateur radio equipment, just as much as you
have a right to have interference-free TV reception, it is best to
reach a compromise and possibly accept his offer of filters etc. If
he is buggering up your reception, it's a fair bet that your
neighbours might be suffering as well so he might be providing filters
to a lot of people.

The regulatory body used to be the Post Office, I guess OfCom might be
the first place to try nowadays.


When I was active on the amateur bands, anyone complaining
about TVI got an invite to my shack where I would demonstrate
a perfect picture on all available TV channels (just three in the early
days!) on my set in the same room as my equipment.
Then we took it from there.

--
Graham.

%Profound_observation%


  #8  
Old February 25th 09, 06:56 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
David
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,418
Default Ham radio Interference

I always thought Radio Hams bent over backwards to solve these things even
if their not own fault.

I would write to their club body, RSGB.

Worst comes to the worst stick a pin through his coax.
Only joking, but I know of a TV debt collector who did that.

--
Regards,
David

FREESAT HD as it is now its a joke.
No BBC 1 or 2, no Ch4 or Five HD.
ITV1 a couple of programmes a week in HD

Please reply to News Group

  #9  
Old February 25th 09, 07:02 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Graham.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 442
Default Ham radio Interference



"David" wrote in message
...
I always thought Radio Hams bent over backwards to solve these things even
if their not own fault.

I would write to their club body, RSGB.

Worst comes to the worst stick a pin through his coax.
Only joking, but I know of a TV debt collector who did that.



That was common practice in the 60s and 70s.
VHF downloads tended to have stranded inners so the pin easily found its
mark.
--
Graham.

%Profound_observation%


  #10  
Old February 25th 09, 07:57 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Ian Jackson[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,968
Default Ham radio Interference

In message , Graham.
writes


What he is doing is definitely wrong (ie illegal) if it can be proven
that it is his equipment causing the interference. I work on building
electrical control panels for machinery and we have go though all
sorts of standards and regulations hoops and spend thousands of pounds
to ensure our equipment does not ruin people's TV reception, amongst
other things - it is part of the CE marking of electrical equipment.

He has a right to use his amateur radio equipment, just as much as you
have a right to have interference-free TV reception, it is best to
reach a compromise and possibly accept his offer of filters etc. If
he is buggering up your reception, it's a fair bet that your
neighbours might be suffering as well so he might be providing filters
to a lot of people.

The regulatory body used to be the Post Office, I guess OfCom might be
the first place to try nowadays.


When I was active on the amateur bands, anyone complaining
about TVI got an invite to my shack where I would demonstrate
a perfect picture on all available TV channels (just three in the early
days!) on my set in the same room as my equipment.
Then we took it from there.

A very wise policy.
--
Ian
 




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